stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target- revealing flop session:
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/801?l=1)
09:56:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>DO NOT GO BACK to the site when you return....
I did NOT understand the comment about not going back to site. I thought
Gene might have been saying something about the Stargate site or something
else. I NOW know that he meant for us to NOT re-access the target after the
initial contact within the session. (In my case with original ideogram).
I have been taught to do a lot of moves when stymied and that includes time
moves that RE-ACCESS the target. I had also been taught (Lyn & Paul) that
targets would be earth based (probably in reaction to Ed and Courtney's
unverifiable directions). When I had planets and galaxies in swirling
motion, I concluded I was on an AOL tear, when in fact, I was target line.
The rest is JUNK, as Gene points out.
This was an EXCELLENT target to use to wrist slap the AOL tendency.
Also the S4-S6 columns of CRV include the words Tangibles, Intangibles, etc
and this is where one is SUPPOSED to gamble forth some nouns (labels, etc.).
Regardless, I blew the session, no excuses. I'm glad of - 1.Gene gave the
target, 2.Gene critically reviewed the session, 3.I had some contact with
target line, and 4.I LEARNED something.
Here is the session & review.
>If enough folks come back with
nice
>answers, I may (MAY!!!) give you a second set of coordinates so you can go
>back for a second trip...
>Ghengis Gene...the Monitor from Hell...
>
and and course, here is your report...Now, before I begin...I demand that my
students or viewers obey the rules...this is not an ego thing...it really does
make a difference...therefore....I am discounting your second session...I will
not analyse it or provide feedback....my instructions were to go to the target
once and only once...heck, I even capitilized the statement...therefore ..
your second session is totally invalid....(and in fact it is.....by the second
session you had slipped into an classic AOL Dirve situation and everything you
reported was controlled by that drive and bears no similarities to anything at
the target...SEE THERE IS A REASON FOR ONLY GOING TO A SITE ONCE on the same
set of coordinates...
OK...that is the butt chewing...now lets begin...
Session Content:
S1 - Natural, Structure, Water
clear, open, spacious, - AOL BK-Heavens, Galaxies - dark blue, violet,
indigo, white, spotted, dark luminance,purple, burgundy, deep, foggy (s4?),
blurry, misty, changing (S4?), motion, fluidic, gaseous, - AOL BK -gaseous
planet, AOL BK-Bimini Atol, white, grey, blowing, whooshing sounds, grey
blue, smooth, AOL BK -'something morphing into form/shape' , steel grey,
navy grey, porous, airy, spacious, whirling, looping, repeating,
undulating, swirling, spinning, AOL BK - tornado, AI BK - 'I feel dizzy'
'I feel involved', AOL BK - Violent natural event (NAG) AOL BK Castle
Building Suspect (CBS), thin, permeable, gaseous, AOL BK - Debris in air,
rising upward, lifting, (sketched something like a popped pimple), tan,
taupe, grey, spacious, misty, (Now in S4) Tangible - 'Stuff in air' AOL BK
- Mt St Helens, (S6 move to present time) Ideograms - "people", (why did you
say this..."people"...nothing you have said up til now has any human elements
in it whatsoever...this is really one of Lyn Buchanan's "Stray Cats"..drop
it...no people here...trust me...NO PEOPLE" natural,
motion, water, structure. Sensories- grey-green, smooth, pale, milky,
misty, Intangibles- delicate, precious, fragile, reverence, dark blue,
water, deep, dark luminance, cold blackish, bluishblack,
Right about here is where the AOL drive begins...you started "naming" and
"titling" objects and from then on it was a downhill spin...once you begin
labeling and naming...you have to wake up the left brain to help you tie names
to objects and each time you do that...the right brain becomes weaker..the
session begins to deterioriate rapidly....and this one reached Mach II in no
time...
AOL BK - Titanic,
sharp pointed, angular, murky, taupe, AOL BK - Bismarck, Tangibles-
Structure (steel, big, strong, heavy, compressed) AOL BK - CBS on Sunken
Ship - Took a Drive Break. Resume - At significant time of structure- cold,
dark, dark greyblue, creamy, straight, flat, sheeted, walling, greygreen,
thin, wispy, misty, airy, spacious, tan, green, smooth, horizontal, tall
walling, rectangular, cornered, blunted, muted luminance, 'soupy' murky, S6
present time- Intangibles- Barren vacated, voided, emptied, solitude,
rememberance, recollections, memory, reverence, AOL BK - Pearl Harbor - USS
Arizona, S6 significant time Emotions at the site- fast paced, jerky,
responsive, excited, frightened, alerted, D- tall, flat, airy, S- smokey,
murky, T- Moving smoke, Emotions
again- serious, certain, fatalistic, direct, important, focused,
significant, Describe Motion- big, laboring, massive, hard, unstoppable,
Intangibles (Purpose of Target?)- transport, cause, travel, move, 'en
route', S6 to Just Before event - Emotions at the site- peaceful, reserved,
cautious, apprenhensive, curious, Site Sensories/Intangibles- pale blue,
pleasant, bright, white, blue, soft, peaceful, calm, placid pristine,
Tangibles- Land/Water Interface, bright luminance, S6 Timeline- Event
timing- apx 900-1002 AD. Duration- apx 50 yrs. S6 Clay - looks like a
mushroom or bell. AOL BK Space Capsule
Session Summary:
The target is a manmade structure which now represents an event of the
past. The structure is mushroom or bell shaped metallic object with a
rounded conical top. There is an additional structure which is tall
rectangular, pointed, angular, sheeted, flat and metallic.
The event included a lot of swirling, smokey, murky, misty motions which
filled the view field with varying degrees of hampered vision. There is
water at the site. The event caused caused significant changes in shapes
and forms. The event had big violent, massive, unstoppable motions. The
people who experienced it were calm and peaceful prior to event, but
suddenly became frightened and alerted. The event included a powerful
rising and uplifting force on matter.
People at present time think of site in a somber, reverant, and reflective
manner. There is a barren, voided, loss feeling about the event.
The purpose of the target was to transport, travel, move, and be 'en route'.
The timeline places event around 950 AD with a 50 year duration.
End Summary:
End Session:
The items I have darkened in your report are not valid..no way..not even
close...they are AOLdriven and caused by your initial "need" tendency to label
and name items... An onsite monitor would have caught you before this happened
and backed up a bit ...everytime you "named" something, I would have made you
tell me why you called it that..describe it to me...etc...
Now .. that stated...there are no people at this site...never has been and
never will be...For the first half of your session your were at the site...but
since you did not nor could not understand what it was...you woke up your left
brain and from then on...the session was not worth a tinkers damn...
Near the Andromeda cluster is one of Earth's closest phenomenas known as a
"Black Hole"...this one is called Cygnus 181...the target was this black
hole...now go back and read the first part of your session and see where you
went astray...Dave you had it .. but like lots of new viewers, if you look at
something you do not recognize or understand, you feel compelled to label it
so you feel comfortable with it...there is nothing comfortable about a black
hole and no way you can compare it to anything else you have encountered since
no one has ever been to a black hole...
I told you it was a dimensional target...I have no idea why you chose to make
this a time target......Anyhow...you did great for about ten minutes...good
job...
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Jesus crucifixion day -
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/503
14:45:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000501-000600---------
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/802)
09:57:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>Thanx Bill for doing my analysis...in the future, I will send all of the
>reports MY viewers do to you just to make sure they pass you approval...
>Gene..
Gene,
Please cut that out!
Bill was only trying to be helpful and take part in a friendly manner. He
didn't attack you in any way, and he didn't say anything bad about you. He
wasn't
suggesting that his analysis was perfect, that he could or is doing a better
job than you, or that you couldn't do your own analysis.
When I read his post, all I felt was that he was trying to offer
a little support and *encouragement* to a fellow list member, to be friendly,
and I suspect he only felt like contributing. It is nice to see people like
Bill
offering their own posts to this list, and being so supportive, and I'm sure he
did it with
only the very best of intentions. I find it worrying when someone can be
so supportive and kind, and then you come off with this criticism of him.
No wonder people feel intimidated, even frightened, by you.
Gene, you might not be aware of this, and in fact I wasn't aware
of it until I received several emails after my "write my if you have problems
with anyone" post, but a lot of your comments *are* upsetting people and
causing them to go into "lurk mode" for fear of "retailiation". People are
genuinely intimidated by your posts and behaviour. I realise this is only
your Celtic style, and *I* have got used to it now, but I have to think of
everyone on this list, and deal with any problems that are brought to
my attention.
As list moderator, I find this latest news extremely disturbing. This is
supposed to be *everyone*'s list. Everyone should feel comfortable and
welcome here. It is supposed to be a place of meeting, friendship and
learning. People should not feel intimidated into silence by someone else's
attitude or style. That goes contrary to what I am trying to accomplish
here.
Someone even wrote to me saying they were *afraid* to post something
on this list. Yes, afraid. The person only wanted to be helpful. The
person wanted to post, and tell all of you reading this post, that Charles
Tart would soon be on the Art Bell show. Because this person was
frightened, (s)he did not post it and instead emailed this message to
me because they (s)he was afraid of being flamed. My heart sunk
a little when I heard that she was afraid of posting here. No one
should feel excluded.
Since the majority of emails referred to you directly by name, I must ask
that you please try to be a little more understanding and tolerant towards
other posters here.
I am posting this publicly because so many people have written to me about
this, and I wanted those people to know that I hear and understand their
concerns, and that I do not want them to feel intimidated of contributing, even
if all they want to contribute is a helpful or friendly post. If ANYONE feels
intimidated or upset or otherwise does not want to contribute, I hope they
feel they can trust me to write to me about this, and I'll see what I can do. I
only want to make this list "safe" and comfortable for all would-be
contributors.
Everyone's contributions are welcome here, and everyone's unique point of
view and perspective adds to our own, so we all lose if they decide to keep
their own ideas and opinions to themselves. We lose an opportunity to
learn.
I am slowing coming to understand Gene, too, and I am sure Gene is not *meaning*
to be offensive, so Gene, I have to say I can see your point of view, and that
it's just the Celtic way.. to be blunt, even sarcy. But a lot of people here,
whether
you realise it or not, are finding that very offensive.
So Gene, I must respectfully ask you to 'tone down' your posts, and bear in
mind
that bluntness and sarcasm can be deeply hurtful to other list members here,
and to do your best to think of others and their feelings when you make a post
to
the list. They're human beings with feelings of their own, too.
Your contributions are welcome, so I am not asking you to stop posting. Indeed,
I hope you will continue to post. As I have said, all contributions are welcome
and add to our own understanding and knowledge. We'd all lose out if you
decided not to contribute, just as we lose out if others decide not to
contribute.
I'd just appreciate it if you could be a little more carefulful with the wording
of your
posts.
Thank you.
Regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/803)
09:57:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Well then fine. Here is a black hole ~100 million times more massive
than Cygnus X-1. Go ahead and code it into your targets, that way you
can ride a really big implosion into oblivion.
Seattle Bill
Source: Space Telescope Science Institute
Posted 6/22/98
Hubble Uncovers Dust Disk Around A Massive Black
Hole
Resembling a gigantic
hubcap in space, a 3,700
light-year-diameter
dust disk encircles a 300 million
solar-mass black hole
in the center of the elliptical
galaxy NGC 7052.
The disk, possibly a
remnant of an ancient galaxy
collision, will be
swallowed up by the black hole in
several billion years.
Because the front end
of the disk eclipses more stars
than the back, it
appears darker. Also, because dust
absorbs blue light more
effectively than red light, the
disk is redder than the
rest of the galaxy (this same
phenomenon causes the
Sun to appear red when it sets
in a smoggy afternoon).
This NASA Hubble Space Telescope image was taken with
the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2,
in visible light. Details as small as 50 light-years
across can be seen.
Hubble's Faint Object Spectrograph (replaced by the
STIS spectrograph in 1997) was used to
observe hydrogen and nitrogen emission lines from gas
in the disk. Hubble measurements show
that the disk rotates like an enormous carousel,
341,000 miles per hour (155 kilometers per second)
at 186 light-years from the center.
The rotation velocity provides a direct measure of
the gravitational force acting on the gas by the
black hole. Though 300 million times the mass of our
Sun, the black hole is still only 0.05 per cent
of the total mass of the NGC 7052 galaxy. Despite its
size, the disk is 100 times less massive than
the black hole. Still, it contains enough raw
material to make three million sun-like stars.
The bright spot in the center of the disk is the
combined light of stars that have crowded around the
black hole due to its strong gravitational pull. This
stellar concentration matches theoretical models
linking stellar density to a central black hole's
mass.
NGC 7052 is a strong source of radio emission and has
two oppositely directed 'jets' emanating
from the nucleus. (The jets are streams of energetic
electrons moving in a strong magnetic field and
unleashing radio energy).
Because the jets in NGC 7052 are not perpendicular to
the disk, it may indicate that the black hole
and the dust disk in NGC 7052 do not have a common
origin. One possibility is that the dust was
acquired from a collision with a small neighboring
galaxy, after the black hole had already formed.
NGC 7052 is located in the constellation of
Vulpecula, 191 million light-years from Earth.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
gene???
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/804)
09:58:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
i dont understand people that send you results wont be getting feedback for
what the target was?
Eyal
>>
People who send results of their viewing get feedback (my report)
privately...their results and my report on their results is initially between
them and me...if they wish the results to be posted publicly...then I do so..
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target- revealing flop session:
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/805)
09:58:30
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< I concluded >>
A classic AOL statement incidentally...Seems like...I think it is...I
concluded...these are all big white waving flags that a viewer is in AOL...You
did great Dave...you just are not use to my technique...not many people are
since I do not run a school or make tapes to sell or anything like that...you
were also unaware of just how much of an asshole I can be when it comes to RV
and following instructions...now you know what all of my previous students
know and a good number of folks on the net have already concluded...
Gene.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/806)
09:58:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< d just appreciate it if you could be a little more carefulful with the
wording of your
posts.
>>
Before I enter the "lurk" a couple of points...When Bill P starts sending his
students Doctoral thesis to me for review, then I will accept him reviewing
the work of my viewers..in this case BevyJ was "my" viewer since she was
acting upon my tasking...She had already received professional analysis by me
privately and I did not believe she needed a second opinion.
Second point...I have never "flamed" a learner or beginner...the only folks
who get my wrath are the self serving or arrogant individuals who talk down
intelllectually to the rest of us...My posting of the coordinates for the
target was an attempt to help the learners..very few of the other class of
folks chose to respond....Does that tell you anything...?
Now, my turn to enter the lurk...promise I will not intimidate anyone
anymore...Those of you who feel that way..I am sorry...drop me a note to my
personal EMAIL...CURRAN2106@... and talk to me about it...
I will continue to watch and listen...but for now..goodbye folks..this is
really getting a little upsetting...
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/807)
09:59:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< Well then fine. Here is a black hole ~100 million times more massive
than Cygnus X-1. Go ahead and code it into your targets, that way you
can ride a really big implosion into oblivion. >>
... or this
Click here: Gamma-Ray
Burst Found to be Most Energetic Ev...
http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/1998/17/
Gamma-Ray Burst Found to be Most Energetic Event in Universe....
Image of the GRB 971214 field, obtained with the Hubble Space Telescope about
four months after the burst, well after the afterglow has faded away. The
extremely faint and distant galaxy (marked with an arrow) is the host galaxy
of the gamma-ray burst. It was discovered earlier using the Keck 10-m
telescope, but it is shown here as seen with a superior sharpness of the HST.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site feedback
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/808)
09:59:24
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
I haven't been able to do Gene's target, because although I avoided all
emails entitled target site, someone actually put BLACK HOLE as title for
an email. I found my opportunity to have fun completely blown. $%&^£*&@~#}[
!!!!!
Can we please find a way to deal with this, so sessions aren't spoiled like
this again. We can't all do sessions immediately.
Really disappointed and thoroughly pi@#'d off. Sorry for swearing, but I
really am. Thoroughly. Why don't people think. Grrrrr....
MaryD.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/809)
09:59:39
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Steve. Thanks for the concern. I caught C.T.
on A.B. last night. and for me, this is exactly
a part of what 'some' of us are learning and
can't understand why someone feels threatened
over it. Can't everyone just get along!!!
Anyway, thanks for your list, I feel lke I've
learned quite a bit already.
Nanette
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/810)
09:59:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hello Yes,
The recent huge gamma ray burst would be very interesting. But as long
as we are dreaming, how about the big bang itself. Just go back 15
billion years...anywhere!. If you can go farther than that before the
big bang, well I'm...
Speechless in Seattle
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/811)
10:00:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>...[snipperoo]..how about the big bang itself. Just go back 15
>billion years...anywhere!. If you can go farther than that before the
>big bang, well I'm...
Ya Know....If you think about it...what if (I love to play what if, sorry
Steve) ;-) You did just that, but to many viewers...taking those results and
comparing them, to see if you could piece it all together. I would think the
result would at least either semi-verify the current theories or provide an
alternate theory. Just whatiffing...
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site feedback etc.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/812)
10:00:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< Can we please find a way to deal with this, so sessions aren't spoiled like
this again. We can't all do sessions immediately.
Really disappointed and thoroughly pi@#'d off. Sorry for swearing, but I
really am. Thoroughly. Why don't people think. Grrrrr....
MaryD. >>
Hi Mary and all,
I think a better way to handle the situation is for Gene or who ever, to post
the target coordinates,set a time limit, and sessions be sent directly to him
for feed back.
Then if people want to post-discuss their results, "I nailed it" or I "learned
this and that for this session", have at it.
Now though, I think Steve wants to create a target site-list? Another list for
me to subscribe too? To keep the Stargate list as...... as.... as... what?
Dry, boring, moderated, nice clean gentle discussions? (didn't we have one of
those already)? ...Tepid tea..... when I like chilled shots of Sambuca, or a
tall vodka cranberry. Relax Steve. You know the target discussion will bleed
over to the Stargate.. whatever. I think the last target was great, the
response was terrific, everyone learned something from it, newbies tried it
out, spiced the list up a bit.. It was enjoyable Steve, reading everyone's
sessions. FUN Steve.
As to who is afraid of Gene? or afraid to post due to Genes exuberence?
The Gene I know doesn't OVER react unless baited, or little 'innocent' digs
are made "innocently' his direction........The man is just chuck full of life
and fun... (and love)
If you don't like the particular subject on a thread, then for gods sake dont
read the bloody thing. Delete it.
Warmest Regards to all :-) ~Terri~
my 2 cents as usual
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/813)
10:00:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
You tell him Aqua..I don't have the heart...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/814)
10:00:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
The recent huge gamma ray burst would be very interesting. But as long
as we are dreaming, how about the big bang itself. Just go back 15
billion years...anywhere!. If you can go farther than that before the
big bang, well I'm...
Speechless in Seattle >>
....... Yes darling, been there done that... Gene moved my thru a LIVE
monitored on that target!!! Have anymore ideas where I can go explore? I
looooooove energy.
big smile.
~Terri~
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/814)
10:01:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
The recent huge gamma ray burst would be very interesting. But as long
as we are dreaming, how about the big bang itself. Just go back 15
billion years...anywhere!. If you can go farther than that before the
big bang, well I'm...
Speechless in Seattle >>
....... Yes darling, been there done that... Gene moved my thru a LIVE
monitored on that target!!! Have anymore ideas where I can go explore? I
looooooove energy.
big smile.
~Terri~
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/815)
10:02:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
Ya Know....If you think about it...what if (I love to play what if, sorry
Steve) ;-) You did just that, but to many viewers...taking those results and
comparing them, to see if you could piece it all together. I would think the
result would at least either semi-verify the current theories or provide an
alternate theory. Just whatiffing...
Siochain,
Vikki >>
been there ..done that..have the t-shirt...BB (Big Bang) is a standard target
that I use for my advanced students...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/816)
10:02:32
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Nanette --
I really can't imagine anyone on this list being particularly averse to the
writings of Charles Tart. Besides, he wrote the preface to Bob Peterson's OBE
book, didn't he?
Although Art Bell pisses off a lot of people (like me) he occasionally has
good people on his show.
Don't worry -- it's not necessary to talk in code: ix-nay on the ode-cay!
:-)
-- John
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/817)
10:02:59
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>Second point...I have never "flamed" a learner or beginner...the only folks
>who get my wrath are the self serving or arrogant individuals who talk down
>intelllectually to the rest of us...
Gene,
This is blatantly false. About a year a ago I posted a simple request for
information to you on the VWR list, and your response couldn't be
interpreted as anything but a flame. I replied in a civil manner, hoping
to clarify, and received yet another flame. Would you care for me to post
the interchange for historical purposes?
If you are so concerned about arrogance, I suggest you reread your own
posts and practice greater insight into your own behavior.
Michael
R. Michael O'Bannon, Ph.D.
Corporate and Clinical Psychologist
42 Lenox Pointe
Atlanta, GA 30324
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Big Bang
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/818)
10:03:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Vikki, Actually A-S already had some interesting data from going down
the shoot in the black hole and out into something(?) that could have
been AOLed as a new universe. Such a model has been proposed that black
holes open into new baby universes. So if she could do that, why not the
Big Bang. No direct way to verify what is seen, but if something novel
is seen, maybe theory will eventually prove it.
Seattle Bill
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/819)
10:03:20
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Sorry John, it wasn't a code- It's just my little typing problem!
;)Nanette
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene/List Rules
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/820)
10:03:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>I really can't imagine anyone on this list being particularly averse to the
>writings of Charles Tart. Besides, he wrote the preface to Bob Peterson's OBE
>book, didn't he?
Hi.. I'm afraid there's been a misunderstanding. The person is not
frightened by Charles Tart, but frightened to post to this list! (Person) wanted
to tell everyone about his appearance on Art Bell, but was frightened
because (quote) "fear of flames". That person was not the only one!
I am trying to make this list comfortable for everyone, and no one should
feel threatened here. I asked people to get in touch with me if they had
a problem with the list or anyone on it, and they did. A got quite a *few*
emails, including a few that directly referred to Gene specifically by name
(his was the only name people mentioned in these emails as being a
problem to them.)
..
Now... this is everyone's list, but somebody has to lay down
the ground rules, and that someone is me, as I am the list owner and the
only person who is able to use the administrative features of the list.
I draw the line where people get hurt, or where the list's attention is being
diverted for long periods of time from it's primary focus topic; serious
discussion and debate about serious rv/psi. To that end, insults and
flames are not permitted. Who determines if a post is an insult or flame
(it is, afterall, a *subjective* thing)?
Well, in practice it usually works like this: someone writes to me and says
they were offended by X in post Y. I read the post they're referring to, and
if I can sympathise with their complaint, and it is not hard to see the post
they are referring to as an insult, then I uphold it and take some kind of
action. The action I took this time, was simply to point out: (1) I'd received
complaints about Gene and in general, (2) I asked Gene to tone down, and
made a post saying I had read and understood the complaints. That's all -
so far, anyway. I hope no further action will be necessary. It is easy to
tone down an email, afterall.
--List Rules for the Star Gate list (preliminary):--
By being a member of this list, and/or contributing, you are agreeing to be
bound by these ground rules. If, for some reason, a person feels they *cannot*
abide by these basic ground rules, I suggest that they unsubscribe. If they
demonstrate they are unable to follow these rules, the list moderator may
unsubscribe them himself, although will usually do this as a "last resort"
option.
I provide this list as a public service, free of charge, to the
psi/remote-viewing
community, without any condition other than the list rules below. It is within
my
rights, as list owner, to moderate this list in any way I feel is
appropriate, and it is also within my rights, just to emphasise that this *is* a
service I'm providing, at my own expense and for *free*, to close or suspend
this
list, with -OR- without reason, at -any- time. It is within my rights to
interpret these
rules and to carry them out in any way I feel is right/appropriate/necessary.
If people have a problem with the rules or the way I enforce them, they should
unsubscribe, but I would hope they would try to resolve the matter by e-mail
first,
as there could be a misunderstanding. To emphasise the basic rules:
BASIC LIST RULES
1. No offensive posts are permitted (subjective; recognised as offensive if
complaint is received, and complainant and myself subjectively both feel it is/
probably is offensive.)
2. The list is designed for rv/psi discussion only. The list moderator
will decide if a list topic is productive or counter-productive to this goal,
but will
usually be fairly liberal in his interpretations of what constitutes an
"on-topic"
post. However, the list moderator reserves the right to be as liberal or
conservative in his judgements as he deems necessary, with or without
explanation being given. But especially no "spam", or "unsolicited commercial
email" (UCE.)
3. List moderator reserve the right to restrict, suspend or cancel a
subscriber's
access at any time, with or without reason. The list moderator's decision is
final
and the moderator reserves the right not to enter into any discussion on
the matter once a decision has been made.
4. I reserve the right to suspend or close this list at any time, with or
without
explanation. (This includes temporary down-time.)
5. (new) New targets and the discussion of them should be made on the new
Target Discussion List. This is allow people the choice as to whether they
wish to receive session summaries, analysis, etc. or just the general psi/rv
discussion of the Star Gate list.
6. The moderator reserves the right, probably in extreme circumstances, to
change list mode at any time so that list posts are pre-screened, i.e.
moderated. (Envisaged need: if a large flame-war starts, and several
people are involved, and there is sudden and urgent need to block several
posts, e.g. the flames of a large flame-war.) This would only be a temporary
status.
6. I reserve the right to review, add or modify rules at any time and to enforce
them in any way I feel is right/appropriate.
--End of List Rules--
I hope people see these rules as being fair, and common-sensical. It is not
my desire to limit discussion, or to play big brother, and I will try to be as
liberal, in favour of a poster, in interpreting these rules as I can. But I
think
the rules above should give people a good idea of the rules I operate under
on this list, and lay the boundaries of what what I am prepared to allow on
this list.
SUMMARY
- don't flame anyone
- don't take this list for granted
(I did not set up this list only to be given a guilt-trip should the need come
for me to close it again)
- try to keep on-topic (rv/psi) - especially, no spam or UCE.
- please try to keep target discussion on the Target Discussion list and thus
keep the Star Gate list free for other rv/psi topics.
- these rules might change at any time
CONCLUSION
By subscribing or posting to the list, you are agreeing to these rules. If you
do not agree, please unsubscribe now.
These rules are designed for your own protection! (To protect you from flames
or insults, to protect you from spam/UCE, to protect you from receiving dozens
of off-topic posts that may not interest you, etc.)
As a list member, you enjoy the benefits of the protection of these rules. If
someone flames you, you can be assured that if you write to me, and I
agree with you that it is a flame, and you wish it action to be taken, then
action
will be taken against the offender. You do not then need to worry about
your posts being responded to with flames.
The list rules are designed to protect the members of this list, so that they
can
feel safe and comfortable in posting and participating in this list.
I want this to be a comfortable place, where people can feel secure and safe
in posting their comments and ideas.
Private replies to this post are welcome.
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/821)
10:04:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Dear Steve,
It was said somewhere that the whole US effort concerning RVing raised from the
discovery of a Russian threat in the 60s.
May I ask if
- you or somebody else on your list knows about that threat ?
- Was it a threat coming from a Russian RV use ?
- Does there exist an evaluation on this threat ?
- Was it real or just disinformation ?
- Is this still active in some way in the post USSR countries or somewhere else
?
- Do you know docs or books about that threat, aside the classics (like "Psychic
discoveries behind the Inron Curtain", by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn Schroeder,
1970 and abridged 1997) ?
THX
Jean-Luc
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/822)
10:04:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Jean-Luc,
Thanks for the questions!
I know a little about the historical aspect of all this. Part of the
reason for the
US intelligence community's interest in starting an RV project, which began
with projects like Scanate in the 70s at SRI, was apparently the strong
Russian interest in parapsychology, and to paraphrase "if they have, and it
works, and we don't have it, then we are in big trouble", or "if they have
it,
we have to have it too."
The CIA knew from the beginning that this sort of project would be
extremely
controversial and wouldn't fit into the traditional intelligence business.
Yet,
they knew they had to give it at least a try, so they persisted, and..
well, the
rest you know!
But, yes, Russian interest in the subject did seem to kick off the US's
interest
in parapsychology. That, plus according to stories, the impressive
survival
"gut instincts" of certain military officers who seemed to always be in the
right
place at the right time, and never the wrong place at the wrong time..
If you don't mind technical reading, then I suggest you check out my own
website, the Star Gate Documents Archive. Go to the "Electronic Reading
Room" section and select the "Final Report (NBIT)". It is a scientific
paper (about 150 pages), obtained by FOIA, which reviews Russian interest
and scientific research into parapsychology, and highlights some of the
differences
between the US and Russian scientific approaches and opinions on the
subject.
It might contain information that's useful.
The Star Gate Website is a collection of documents obtained by your US
Freedom
of Information Act, which I have scanned and put online for free. There
may be
more mentions of Russian interest, but the NBIT document is the only one
that
focuses solely on it. It's technical, but you may find it interesting!
>- Do you know docs or books about that threat, aside the classics (like
"Psychic
>discoveries behind the Inron Curtain", by Sheila Ostrander and Lynn
Schroeder,
>1970 and abridged 1997) ?
I'm afraid I can't recommend any books.. sorry! If I find out about any,
I'll
let you know. Let me know if you check out the Star Gate website though,
you might find something there that interests you (such as the NBIT
document),
although these FOIA documents are a little on the technical side.
Oh, the address? It's up at:
http://www.progressiveweb.net/stargate/
The Star Gate Documents Website
I hope this information is helpful! Good luck in your research! Sorry I
couldn't
recommend any books - perhaps other list contributors can help? Anyone
out there know any good books on the Russian interest in all this..?
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Russian Research
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/823)
10:04:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi List, After Jean-Luc's post, I thought I would type up some excerpts from
the Final Report (NBIT) I mentioned in my reply. The document focuses on the
differences in approach between US-Western research into, as we call it here,
parapsychology.. and the Eastern/Russian research, into "psychoenergics" (as
they called it over there.)
From page 5-6:
OVERVIEW
The great bulk of the papers reviewed during this study were found to
be
speculative, unscientific, and sensationalistic, much like the
parapsychological
literature in the West. There is one big difference, however, between this
type of literature in the U.S.S.R and the U.S. The Soviet literature
almost
invariably shows interest in the physical and physiological mechanisms. An
example is the interest in psychoenergetics, bioplasma, and psychotronics.
The term psychotronics was coined by a French jounralist after the analogy
with electronics, bionics, nucleonics, and others. The Czechs have adopted
the term to replace parapsychology. The Russians have devised their
own term-psychoenergetics. These new names were chosen to given the
field of study an air of scientific and technological respectability.
A fundamental question remains: does the name imply a basic difference
in the approach and, if so, what effects can be expected from it? Judging
from the available literature, the name does imply a difference in the
approach of the Russian and Czech Investigators from that of most Western
parapsychologists. Some of the differences are outlined below.
(1) The Russians do not undertake studies like those of J.B. Rhine,
in which remote card reading or other simple telepathic tasks
are carried out repeatedly to gather statistical evidence. The
Russians assume the reality of thought transference. Their best
experiments are designed to elucidate the physical basis of these
novel biophysical ifnormation transfer (NBIT) mechanisms.
(2) Many of the Russian researchers that public in open literature
in this field pursue their studies on their own time and at their
own personal expense. They lack the resources to carry out well
designed or long statistical studies.
(3) Many Westerners remain convinced that parapsychology will never
be
explained in terms of physics. They cling to an undertone of a
religious-like belief in trascendent mechanisms. The Russians,
in contrast, reject such an approach; being doctrinaire
materalists,
everything has a physical, scientific explanation. Again, this
line of reasoning reinforces the trend toward eliciting the
physical mechanisms of NBIT.
(4) The Soviets would not hesitate to use secrecy or deception to try
to gain a small military or political advantage. This
desire to gain a small advantage would undoubtedly lead them to
try
to develop NBIT means of communication if they assumed that it
was technically feasible. Such attempts would obviously be
cloaked
in secrecy and camouflaged by false information.
In reviewing Soviet and Western work on NBIT phenomena, it seems
reasonable
that serious interdisciplinary research and development is being carried
on.
Furthermore, there seems to be veridical indication that the Soveits have
organized laboratories for just such programs. On the other hand, it is
obvious
that many Russian workers in this field pursue their research as
extracurricular
activity, with little or no funding. Thus, there are hints of secret work
as
well as indication that parapsychological research may be in disfavor. It
may
be that high quality, systematic reseach is officially approved, well
funded,
and well organized, whereas research in this field from "nonofficial"
laboratories
may be allowed to founder without funds, thus providing a smoke screen of
poor
quality work. If the Soviets did indeed establish laboratories for a
systematic
approach to this problem, in our opinion they are currently capable of
making
good progress.
The literature surveyed varies widely in degree of sophistication.
Most
experimental papers given rather vague descriptions and insufficient data
to
assess the accuracy and importance of claimed results. Upon completion of
the
review, we found the bulk of what was considered to be creditable work
centers
around the activities of three principal individuals-Kogan, Adamenko, and
Sergeyev.
Of the theoretical papers, those by Kogan are undoubtedly the best and
reflect the good thinking of an experienced physicist. Using physically
acceptable arguments, Kogan demonstrates the possibility that ELF and VLF
carrier waves might be part of NBIT mechanisms, and initiates an
information
theory approach to the study of NBIT. His ideas are much like those of
Persinger
and strike a resonant chord for all members of the team.
The papers by Adamenko, on the other hand, are spotty with respect to
knowledge of modern physics and physiology. He utilizes a number of poorly
defined and unquantifiable concepts such as "bioplasma," "psi energy," etc.
Nevertheless, significant contributions are made by him-particularly his
study
and explanation of telekinesis in terms of electrostatics.
The papers by Sergeyev shows the effectiveness of a radar signature
expert
turned to analyzing electrophysiological events. He shows some interest-
ing new possibilities, taking into account that the noise in the signals
not
only contain statistical random variations, but that the carriers also may
have non-stationary drifts. His work also seems to suffer from the lack of
an interdisciplinary approach. Furthermore, he is probably responsible for
the
development of at least one and perhaps two remote physiological sensors.
CONCLUSIONS
From the review of essentially open Soviet literature, the following
conclusions are made:
(1) The Soviets have done significant work on signal extraction,
statistical, and information theory approaches to novel
biophysical
information transfer mechanisms.
(2) The Soviets have done creditable work on the electrostatics of
telekinesis and have probably now turned their attention to the
psychophysiological aspects of the phenomenon.
(3) The Soviets have an interest in remote physiological monitors,
have
developed one or two new instruments, and are probably involved
in
R&D in this area.
(4) The Soviets had and probably still have an interest in the
physics
of NBIT transmission mechanisms and are probably doing research
in
this area.
(5) There is a developing interest in the Soviet Bloc to apply
psycho-
physiological training methods (similar to biofeedback) to
develop
control over NBIT mechanisms.
(6) All the Soviet research that has been reviewed suffers from the
lack
of an interdisciplinary approach.
(7) The Soviets are investigating the psychopsysiology of multimodal,
programmed stimulation as a method to entrain physiological
rhythms
and produce changes in states of consciousness.
(8) A systematic, interdisciplinary approach to NBIT by the Soveits
would require only a modest commitment of resources. A small
number of key personnel with an adequate supporting staff of
engineers and technicians could make substantial headway in this
area. At this stage, in our opinion no unique technological
breakthrough is required-only careful investigation. In
addition, no unique features such as physical plant, facilities,
services, or equipment would specifically identify an NBIT R&D
laboratory from other types of laboratories.
These conclusions are drawn in spite of the fact that most of the
published
material we have reviewed is confusing, inaccurate, and of little value
from a
scientific point of view. In this respect, the review team may have erred
in
the directon of trying to make too much sense from a small data base. The
following sections of the report provide a critical review of Soviet
research,
by topic, in support of these conclusions.
--
The rest of the report is up at:
http://www.progressiveweb.net/stargate/
Goto "Electronic Reading Room", then "Final Report (NBIT)", if you'd
like to read on!
Jean-Luc, I hope this information is helpful. I know it's probably not
exactly what you were after, but since you brought up the topic of
Russian research, I thought I would post this. Hopefully it's
helpful!
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/824)
10:05:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Jean-Luc,
Perhaps the following will assist you in answering some of your questions;
"The CIA and the Battle for Reality" - Vaughan Purvis. US Copyright Vaughan
Purvis 1997. UK Copyright Vaughan Purvis 1997. There is an online extract at;
http://www.io.com/~hambone/arch/nauti.html
I have, on my home page, a Bibliography of RV and Psi related books and abstracts
that I have compiled, feel free to browse.
http://www.angelfire.com/sk/ymaster
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Tart's Appearance
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/825)
10:05:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Can someone tell me what day Charles Tart appeared on Art Bell?
We can hear the recording on his archives.
Thanks,
Jerry
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Gene/List Rules
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/826)
10:06:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
Private replies to this post are welcome.
Best regards,
Steve.
----
List Archive: http://www.fi >>
Tell us your Lordship..do we all have to re-subscribe or are you going to
presume we all intend to be good little boys and girls now that the Magna
Carta has been published...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE.
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/827)
10:06:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
anything intresting that you got from RV the Big Bang or the time before it?
Eyal
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Mars
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/828)
10:06:33
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi there :-)
last week I rved the Sphinx face on Mars during a practice session. I heard a
"bang" sound once in a while (no idea in what time interval).
Did anyone make the same experience? and/or to what this bang sounds may be
related?
I am looking forward to some reply.
Until then,
Monika
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/829)
10:06:46
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
I believe that the person who identified and evaluated the psi
information gap between Russia and America was Skip Atwater, Jean-Luc.
You may want to contact him for further information and if there is any
declassified information on this topic.
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Research Institute
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE and BBs
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/830)
10:07:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< anything intresting that you got from RV the Big Bang or the time before
it?
Eyal >>
.... Hi Eyal :-)
No, I don't have much interest in how our current physical universe was
created.
This physical universe we are currently using as our main viewpoint, is just
another learning experience. All of our thoughts-actions simply just keep
adding more beliefs for us to believe in, there by making it seem larger and
larger (another belief :-), but then again, was this why it was created?
hahahah ;-) We are artists in living.... we are great!
It just doesn't matter to me, I can slide up and down, over and round, in and
out of time,
actually there is no movement for me, all time space just 'is' and it is the
viewpoint, the point from which I am viewing, or 'me' (essence) that is
changing or shifting.
What I do like to do is 'feel', and by feeling energy I have found I also can
'know'. I dont need science to prove 'it' to me I just simply 'know it' and
that's all just fine with me.
I have great affinity with the blackhole, the energy, the sensual feel of it,
curious, virgin, wee infinitesimal particles all about me, safe, secure,
trusting, fresh exploring new life, beautifullllll, we, the black hole and I,
exchange I guess beliefs, what ever the phenomena, Eyal, I love it......
kind regards ~Terri~
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
List Rules
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/831)
10:07:19
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Good for you Steve. I intend to apply the same common sense rules to the
innervision list. These are the same rules that apply to any on-line list
as they are basically common sense and courtesy. I cannot see any
reasonable person having a problem with them.
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Research Institute
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
List Rules
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/832)
10:07:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< I cannot see any
reasonable person having a problem with them. >>
...... the last thing I am or want to be reasonable... yaaaaawn.
~T~
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Breaking the silence..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/833)
10:08:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
I am breaking my self imposed lurk for a few chosen words. Those of you who
feel frightened or intimidated by my presence...now is the time to delete me
and go crawl under a blanket until the big bad man goes away.
Steve has told several of my colleagues that he had 4 or five complaints
against me from people who were "FRIGHTENED" (his capitalization..not mine),
intimidates and "FEARFUL" of me and my comments. Well lets put a face to you
fears. I have included my picture...See no horns...but of course any good
satan knows how to conceal them. For all of those 4 or 5 people (whoever you
might be), who feel you cannot speak up in my presence...well let me note that
since Steve decided to publicly pillory me, over a dozen of the folks who are
serious learners, people who still do not grasp the fullness of the magic, the
people who should most benefit from this site, have taken up my offer to
contact me directly...No fear in their posts. No intimidation. No frightened
quivering cowards among them. Just honest REAL people who want to know about
RV in terms we can all understand. I have taken the time to answer each one
of them...(so much for not being sensitive heh Steve...). I take very
personal any comments concerning the worth of the "old way" we did RV...it
worked wonders and it still does. I take great umbrage at anyone who attacks
the magic. It is is magic and it will continue to be magic no matter how many
PHd's try to prove it otherwise. I have been teaching RV to individual
students for about three years now...(so much for me not caring heh
Steve...)...and I do not charge a penny. I owe this to RV and it is my dues
for the magic is has brought me...(so much for my lack of feeling heh
Steve...). My students always wind up being my friends and my advisors...I
listen to them and learn from them..(so much for my arrogance heh
Steve...)....One of my students is beginning to teach now herself...and I
could not be more proud and more helpful to her...but then the folks who
contact me directly know just how helpful I really am. As to my liitle
experiment with coordinates on the net...ah yes....somehow that must have
really upset the sensibilities of the folks who I have scared to death since I
got over a dozen responses...and answered each one personally with a private
repeat PRIVATE analysis of their session. I did not post their results unless
they chose to do so themselves or gave me permission to do so...(so much for
intimidating them heh Steve...)....Of course the PHd began to attack the
results and I let them without saying a word until one of them chose to stick
his PHd into business that it did not belone...and all hell broke loose
because I had actually attacked one of the intelligentsia on the website that
seem to have the inside track on truth and experience as opposed to we poor
plebians out here who just believe in the magic and do it for the pleasure of
the magic. The result of my challenging the ethics of one of the
intelligentsia was the attempt at my public humiliation...unfortunately it did
not accomplish its purpose...I am not humiliated...it takes more than
intelligentsia and Saxons to humiliate me...far more...Instead...I have chosen
to allow the rest of you to now sleep in peace for the ogre .. the demon of
the net...has gone silent for a while...I will let everyone post their
conclusions of why we began RV in the military in response to the Russian
program no matter how far off you really are...I will even let people talk
about my Mentor, Instructor and Friend, Skip Atwater as the person who
identififed the big bad Russian threat even if he wasn't...it's OK...lots of
people seem to prefer pat answers to the truth so you can all come out from
underneath the covers now...read the answers that call themselves truth and
know that the gremlin of the airwaves has gone into quiet hiding...and will
spend his time helping those who are not quite so frightended of the dark...
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Mars
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/834)
10:08:16
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<<
Hi there :-)
last week I rved the Sphinx face on Mars during a practice session. I heard a
"bang" sound once in a while (no idea in what time interval).
Did anyone make the same experience? and/or to what this bang sounds may be
related?
I am looking forward to some reply.
Until then,
Monika
>>
Monika....Ask Aquaserene about Mars...
Gene...
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Mars
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/835)
10:08:31
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Thank you Gene, if I don't get any reply from her on the list, I will ask her by
private mail.
Wish you a very nice weekend,
Love and peace
Monika
BTW thanks for being back and not in the lurk mode anymore :)
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Breaking the silence..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/836)
10:08:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Folks,
No one should feel intimidated or fearful here. Excuse my blunt nature, but
just tell anyone who intimidates or scares you to "Piss Off".
Now, doesn't that feel better?
Best Regards,
Jerry
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/837)
10:09:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>I believe that the person who identified and evaluated the psi
>information gap between Russia and America was Skip Atwater, Jean-Luc.
>You may want to contact him for further information and if there is any
>declassified information on this topic.
>
>Kind regards
>Angela Thompson Smith
>The Inner Vision Research Institute
>
Not to take anything from what Mr. Atwater, but the awareness of America of
the Russian Psi-Research came about in the normal way. Agent reports in
different agencies, debriefings of defectors, SIGINT reports of collection
efforts and analysis of activities associated with operations within the
Russian communications system. Once there was enough information confirming
the activities a reqirement goes back out to the NSA/CSS/CIA etc to
formulate the response. Because of the nature of the work only agencies
with a charter allowing the collection of that type of information would be
involved. Activites concerning R&D within the institutions of higher
learning DUKE, SRI etc would fund from the CIA, while Collection activities
would fall to the NSA due to restraints of charter and American law. What
the government can do is in fact taken seriously, thats why the IRS
headquarters is in Puerto Rico and not in any state. It was the kiss of
death to the program with its' move to DIA which was an Agency with no
charter to actually collect intelligence. It is in fact a consolidation and
clearing house for intelligence product from agencies empowered to collect.
Why would they do that if someone didn't want it all to go away.
Aloha ... Glenn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE and BBs
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/838)
10:09:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
hi terri
thanks for you beutifull post i feel from reading that you are so happy and
free..
i hope to get there soon to the knowing and the fredom
thank you terri
Eyal
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Mars
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/839)
10:09:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Monika....Ask Aquaserene about Mars...
Gene... >>
.......... Hi Monika !! :-)
So how did you like Mars? Pretty cool place, yah? Maybe we can compare
notes...
I have been inside the face, ahhh ummm guess I could tell you what I saw. Did
you do this ERV or CRV, ERV I could-can hear bangs, pops, cracks!, various
noises, but this just has to do with the altered state, shift in
consciousness-energy (sometimes I think we shift energy too quick and it is
just sort of jarring) pre OBE etc., no big deal, enjoy it.
Then again the energy on Mars is just about the strangest (foreign) I have
found yet, but your still here so I am not worried, LOL :-).
gerat fun, yes? ~Terri~
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
BLACK HOLE and BBs
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/840)
10:10:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>It just doesn't matter to me, I can slide up and down, over and round, in and
>out of time,
>actually there is no movement for me, all time space just 'is' and it is the
>viewpoint, the point from which I am viewing, or 'me' (essence) that is
>changing or shifting.
Oooooo, umm, ooooo, I love it when somebody doesn't just move the goal
posts, but wrenches them out of the ground, and beats me over the head with
them until a light comes on. I delight in this "aha" and "knowing" you have
revealed, Terri..... thankyou.
In Friendship and Light. MaryD
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/841)
10:11:16
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Glen and all, Liam here. I thought I would jump in here real quick
with my Irish charm before Gene, who is just a dumb Mick from the wrong side
of Belfast, responds.
>>
>Not to take anything from what Mr. Atwater, but the awareness of America of
>the Russian Psi-Research came about in the normal way.
Actually, that is partially correct. In approximately 1978, Skip was given
the mission of organizing a project to see if there was a Soviet threat,
and if there was a threat, to come up with ways to counter that threat..
The project quickly evolved from a counterintelligence project into a
collection project. But in the early days Skip was very involved in
researching the threat. Obviously by 1980 or so, Skip was involved full
time in the Ft Meade project, and was probably not very concerned with the
former counterintelligence project. However, Skip is man with incredible
intelligence and energy. He is knowledgeable across the RV field as well
as many other areas. I am sure he kept up on what was going on in other
countries, although he may not have had access to all the message traffic.
Seeing I do not know what has been declassified, let me say this. There
was, and still may be, an agency tasked with monitoring the development of
RV/PSI in other countries. Enough said.
It was the kiss of
>death to the program with its' move to DIA which was an Agency with no
>charter to actually collect intelligence. It is in fact a consolidation and
>clearing house for intelligence product from agencies empowered to collect.
>Why would they do that if someone didn't want it all to go away.
>
>Aloha ... Glenn
Glen, I was the person who moved the Project to DIA. Although you have
identified the GENERAL mission of DIA, you are mistaken about the charter.
Once again, enough said. Given LT Gen Odom's hostility to the project, DIA
was the best choice possible. Another option was NSA. If we had gone that
way, we would have been doing one hundred percent COMSEC (Communications
Security) Boring. Boring. The project would have died within a year, as
the viewers lost interest in what they were doing. And of course General
Odom moved from the Army Chief of Staff for Intelligence over to the
Director
of NSA That made me look like a genius. I do not want to sound to
egotistical so let me add. I did have advice from Skip, Gene, Paul Smith,
Lyn, and Ed Dames. They also thought DIA was the best option available.
Based on their advice and my Irish intelligence and survival skills, I
picked DIA. BTW, We were able to work operationally at DIA.
Not trying to start an argument Glen, we could not discuss it over the
internet any way.
Hope this clears things up.
slainte
May the force be with you.
Liam
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/842)
10:11:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< I believe that the person who identified and evaluated the psi
information gap between Russia and America was Skip Atwater, Jean-Luc.
You may want to contact him for further information and if there is any
declassified information on this topic.
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Research Institute >>
....... really feel I'm getting in too deep here, don't really care much
BUT..
Skip Atwater was one of the original people called upon to work the DoD RV
program after the CIA decided to pass it to DoD. Skip, a military officer,
took the data provided by the CIA program and applied it to military research.
While he certainly spent a great deal of time studying the affects of Soviet
RV programs...he did not discover them...
he only worked against the fact the Russians were known to be experimenting
with RV...he was given that info by the CIA...Also...the reason we looked into
the Russian RV program was to determine if they were good at PK..good enough
to change missile settings in flight.When we figured out that no one could do
that and that PK was very local...matter of feet not miles...then we continued
our research in using RV for viewing their targets.
They existed for almost ten years, according to Wheatons version of
history...during that whole time they were operating illegally...nothing could
be further from the truth.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/843)
10:12:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Aloha Liam,
With my Grandparants from Cork, I get the feeling that the Intelligence
field was overrun with us, maybe that's why Hawaii (a small Island with no
snakes) feels more like home than Louisiana. Is maith liom an ait seo!!
I had no problem with your response at all, it seems the bits and pieces
fall together sooner or later. My opionions about the why and way of it all
change with more information, I hope I am self-correcting in that way :)
The move to DIA I felt was the bums rush out the door. I have to say up
front we didn't like DIA much from my perspective in Group. Gen Odom was
not exactly our poster boy either :). Now Admiral Inman!! He gave us treats
and toys, ahh those were the days.
Thanks heaps for the knowledge! Visit our website at www.hrvg.org if you
get time and I look forward to your posts on this prestigious forum!
Aloha and regards Glenn
PS. Gene , nice picture! I have included one of myself! Perhaps a rogues
gallery will start.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/843)
10:13:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Aloha Liam,
With my Grandparants from Cork, I get the feeling that the Intelligence
field was overrun with us, maybe that's why Hawaii (a small Island with no
snakes) feels more like home than Louisiana. Is maith liom an ait seo!!
I had no problem with your response at all, it seems the bits and pieces
fall together sooner or later. My opionions about the why and way of it all
change with more information, I hope I am self-correcting in that way :)
The move to DIA I felt was the bums rush out the door. I have to say up
front we didn't like DIA much from my perspective in Group. Gen Odom was
not exactly our poster boy either :). Now Admiral Inman!! He gave us treats
and toys, ahh those were the days.
Thanks heaps for the knowledge! Visit our website at www.hrvg.org if you
get time and I look forward to your posts on this prestigious forum!
Aloha and regards Glenn
PS. Gene , nice picture! I have included one of myself! Perhaps a rogues
gallery will start.
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/844)
10:13:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Dear List:
I just received this email from Gene. Gene has just been suspended
from the Star Gate list, and I was thinking how to break the news when I
received an email from Gene, forwarded to a dozen people. Clearly he wants this
to be brought out into the open, so I am addressing this openly. Below is my
reply to his post. Those who disagree with my decision and feel my rules are
unfair should unsubscribe peacefully, while those who agree by them are welcome
to enjoy the protection of a moderator who will be happy to defend you from
personal attacks and
insults and be prepared to take action against trouble-makers.
>I am no longer permitted to post on the Stargate...I take it this means
you
>have kicked me from the net...pity Steve...you really should
reconsider...I
>will make it very well known to your other members that you have done this
and
>why....This is not an adult reaction on your part..I really expected more
from
>you....
Gene,
You can threaten me all you like with further action, but I will not change
my
mind. Yes, you are indeed suspended from the list. I was planning to send
you a mail later today or earlier tommorrow listing my reasons, but
anyway.. I don' have time to think how to put it now, I just have to do
it..
I have taken this action it because you insulted, upset and frightening
several
innocent members. Several people were scared of posting. And when I
inform you of this, your response is to belittle these people's feelings by
calling them "cowards" (your word) in your recent post. I expected more
you
of YOU, Gene, but then I guess that means we are a disappointment
to each other. Don't expect me to lose any sleep on it.
You promised me that you would "be good" when you re-joined the list
after the troubles of last time.
Well, I trusted you, Gene. But you lied to me. By your own admission,
you
attacked someone on the list. I later found out several people had been
insulted and upset by your comments. You were nasty and insensitive to
several people. That is a bannable offense and I have no hestitation
in exercising my rights as list moderator in removing you from the list.
I am making this post publicly as you have indicated you wanted this
public by forwarding it to a dozen or so people. For your insensitive,
and argumentative behaviour that has hurt so many of my list
members, who I have promised to protect from that type of behaviour,
I have decided to remove you from the list.
You insulted others, you attacked others, you insulted me and you
showed zero respect for the rules of the list (which you previously had
agreed to respect as part of your return to the list).
You are suspended from the list, yes! I am sorry this was necessary,
but you left me no choice. If you cannot follow the rules of the list,
you must leave, either voluntary or by force. I decided to remove
you. I'd had enough. Moderating a list where you were a member
was always difficult, and you always seem to cause trouble.
It was within my rights to remove you, and I have
exercised my rights to do so. No explanation was necessary
but I gave you one anyway.
Don't expect any sympathy from me or for me to be frightened or
intimidated by your post. Your days of intimidating others on
the Star Gate list is over, Gene.
Regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/845)
10:13:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Must be the full Moon:)
What a pickle.
Genghis Gene, has a way of both endearing and irritating many, sometimes both
at once LOL that is part of his charm :) and quite apart from his impressive
knowledge, which will be sorely missed here.
Steve, has taken on a huge endeavor providing this service, and in doing so
feels responsible to his subscribers. In the end, all we can do is what we
feel is right. Given Steve's explanation I see his point and respect his
position as moderator to protect the subscribers who were afraid to post.
This is a very tuff call, Im sure none of us would like to have to make. After
presenting the situation and asking for Gene's support Steve got a response,
not unlike the problem he described. Be honest, not many would let that go.
"Can't we all just get along...." Rodney where are you when we need you..
Im sure most of us would like to find a way to work things out, but if someone
does not monitor the playground sometimes the big kids play to rough and the
smaller kids don't get to play at all. With a little restraint everyone can
play, and learn.
Maybe after a cooling off period, if he would like to, Gene could come back,
Im sure Steve will still have his rules in place, after all it is his
playground.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/846)
10:14:13
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>I just received this email from Gene. Gene has just been suspended
>from the Star Gate list...
Steve,
I want to thank you and offer you my support for this decision. I was
neither intidimidated or afraid of Gene, nor did I mind his insults. I did
not complain about him. What I did feel was that he lowered the quality of
the interactions on the list. Because of him, the signal to noise ratio
was always poor ( too much noise, too little signal).
I finally set a filter in my email program to send all his messages to the
trash. Unfortunately, I am sure some list members did not know how to do
that or did not have that capability in their software. New members, of
course, do not do that sort of thing. I'm sure that many newcomres got a
very bad impression of the list before they learned how to deal with him.
You certainly gave him more chances than I would have had I been in your
shoes. Unlike tradtional remote viewers, I *do* predict the future daily
as a psychologist. The principle I use is simple: The best predictor of
future behavior is past behavior. A person with Gene's particular type of
personality disorder is not going to change. He made that abundantly clear.
Your decision will surely improve the quality of the Stargate list. Thanks
again.
Best regards,
Michael
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/847)
10:14:34
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Yaana! And hello list.. :)
>Genghis Gene, has a way of both endearing and irritating many, sometimes both
>at once LOL that is part of his charm :) and quite apart from his impressive
>knowledge, which will be sorely missed here.
I have to agree with you completely here, Yaana!
Despite Gene's ever-controversial and often trouble-causing personality,
his experience and insights will be missed. I can only hope that with his
departure, some of those people who were worried of posting will step
forward, and others will feel safer in contributing, and between them, they'll
be able to make up for some of what has been lost.
>Steve, has taken on a huge endeavor providing this service, and in doing so
>feels responsible to his subscribers. In the end, all we can do is what we
>feel is right. Given Steve's explanation I see his point and respect his
>position as moderator to protect the subscribers who were afraid to post.
Thank you, Yaana. It is comforting to know that someone else is able to
see things from my perspective on this matter. Being a list moderator is
not an easy job, and my respect for other list moderators has grown
enormously through the experience of being one for the Star Gate
list.
Difficult decisions are a regular part of the job. Often, whatever decision
a list moderator makes is going to be unpopular with a certain portion
of the list they are moderating. It is easy to delay or postpone making
these difficult decisions, in the hope the problem will just go away, but
this often results in no action being taken, where infact it should.
After recent events, my doubt on what to do has slowly dwindled, in
favour of suspending Gene's access. While it is not possible to list
all my reasons, logic, emotions, or thinking behind this decision, in
general, I made the decision I did because my suspicions that Gene
might be offending people, was confirmed after receiving some 5 emails
from people who have been frightened off of posting and had felt
intimidated or hurt. It is impossible for me to say whether this was
intentional on Gene's part or not, but the end result was still the same.
However, the lack of any apology for the offense he caused, after it was
brought to his and our attention, coupled with his post which criticised
myself and the list rules, and repeating insults to those same people
he had originally insulted, by branding them "cowards", was the
confirmation I needed that action was necessary.
After taking the suspension action, and preparing to write an email to Gene,
Gene decided to write to me, warning me that if I didn't recant and
allow him back, he would basically "expose" my action against
him. This did not deter me or frighten me, as I had already justified
the action in my mind, and felt it was the only proper cause of action to take.
At least five people were counting on me to do something, and it had
become a case of either Gene being above the list rules, or not. Always
wanting to treat people on equal terms, I decided Gene was not above
the rules of the list. And, despite his informational value to the list, this
could not justify his actions and words against fellow list members.
Gene's post merely reinforced my belief that Gene has the potential
to come across as threatening to other members of the list. I felt
put into the shoes of those people who had emailed me their concerns
by his email to me, and knew how they had felt when they said they'd
felt threatened or intimidated by him.
>This is a very tuff call, Im sure none of us would like to have to make. After
>presenting the situation and asking for Gene's support Steve got a response,
>not unlike the problem he described. Be honest, not many would let that go.
Yaana, you are right, it was a difficult decision for me, a "very tuff call". I
did
not take this decision lightly, but after a very long period of time,
culminating with
his lastest post. But it is not the first time I have wondered if action
against
Gene was necessary. For many times in the past, I have wondered "is
this a flame?" after reading one of Gene's posts, each time letting
Gene have the benefit of the doubt. Steadily, his posts started to
seem more like flames than brashness, but I still remained liberal in
my interpretation and let it go.
Since I had received no complaints, I figured that no one was upset, and
therefore no action was necessary. Eventually I made a post, asking
if anyone had a problem with the list or a subscriber, to get in touch.
Before I knew it, five emails came in about the tense atmosphere they
felt the list had, many referring to Gene by name, and some stating they
they were upset or hurt by Gene. One person, who I hope has been
watching my own reactions to all this, and is reading this now, even
said that they were frightened of posting because of the fear of being
flamed.
Well, after hearing this, I felt that action was needed. I decided to raise
the issue in public, since it was evidently a bigger problem then I first
thought. When this proved fruitless, and only seemed to solidify the
problem, I decided to suspend Gene.
It was not a single post that lead to Gene's suspension, but a series over
a long period of time, and about 5 personal emails to me from
people who had felt hurt or intimidated by Gene, plus Gene's reactions
to hearing about all this. All were pointing in the direction of suspending
Gene's access.
>"Can't we all just get along...." Rodney where are you when we need you..
>Im sure most of us would like to find a way to work things out, but if someone
>does not monitor the playground sometimes the big kids play to rough and the
>smaller kids don't get to play at all. With a little restraint everyone can
>play, and learn.
That's a philosophy I share with you, Yaana! This playground of ours should
be big enough for all of us. The big kids should leave the little kids alone,
but if
they do not, someone should come out and restrain the big kids in order
to protect the smaller ones. Hopefully the big kids will realise that bullying
gets them nowhere, and they are better off playing on friendly terms.
I'm sure Rodney would have some things to say about those big kids and
little kids..
>Maybe after a cooling off period, if he would like to, Gene could come back,
>Im sure Steve will still have his rules in place, after all it is his
>playground.
And it's a playground that I hope everyone will be able to enjoy, knowing
we have a special 'anti-bullying' policy here :) It's a safe zone, and nobody
should feel afraid of coming forward to play.. or contribute a post! (I hope
those 5 or so people are reading this! :)
If Gene were to apologise in full to those he upset or frightened, and to
agree to be bound by the list rules as everyone else is, it is still possible
that Gene can return. But unless that happens, I feel Gene's return
to the list is unlikely.
But that can change.. the future is a very long time..
Thanks for your support, Yaana. Trust me, it was a difficult decision. I
feel it was the right one, but realise there may be those who disagree.
But, at the end of the day, this is a playground with rules, and I have to
set some. It takes someone to interpret those rules, and that person is me,
too. I felt that there was only one option in dealing with Gene, and it's
not one I enjoyed taking, but I feel it is one that had to be taken. I just
hope that most, if not all, people on this list can understand and respect
my decision, even if they may disagree with it. I am simply trying to
make this list a comfortable place for everyone.
Thanks again, Yaana.
Take care,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/848)
10:14:50
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Thanks for the correction and the info, Glen.
wheaton wrote:
>
> ALoha Angela,
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/849)
10:15:06
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Thanks for all the helpful info. I like to get my facts straight.
Angela
> ....... really feel I'm getting in too deep here, don't really care much
> BUT..
> Skip Atwater was one of the original people called upon to work the DoD RV
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/850)
10:15:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< Maybe after a cooling off period, if he would like to, Gene could come
back,
Im sure Steve will still have his rules in place, after all it is his
playground.
Aloha Yaana >>
.... my my yanna sounding very grown up and mature tonight :-) Condescending
:-)
umm goodness last I heard you were really trying to become one of Genes
students.. :-)
oh well as you say aloha... :-) ~T~
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/851)
10:15:55
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>They existed for almost ten years, according to Wheatons version of
>history...during that whole time they were operating illegally...nothing
could
>be further from the truth.
>
Hmmm lets get a couple of things straight here. "Wheaton's version of
history?"
We all have our own versions of history. It's when we get together and
exchange information that we get closer to the truth. After 22 years in
Intel (not the computer chip people) I have a very full and sometimes
colorful idea of history. It doesn't mean that all the beliefs I hold are
the truth. I only have my piece of the puzzle not yours or anyone else's. I
am constantly adjusting my knowledge base. After 2 decades in Intel I know
many things others do not, I have been involved in many projects others
will never know about. The same stands with others, they worked in areas
and conducted intelligence work that I was not privy too nor should be. It
is the nature of the business. Disdain in ones reference to another is ill
appreciated especially when we don't know each other. The free exchange of
ideas, concepts, history and friendship will evolve the history we all share.
Aloha ... Glenn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV Mars
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/852)
10:16:48
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
> So how did you like Mars? Pretty cool place, yah? Maybe we can compare
> notes...
> I have been inside the face, ahhh ummm guess I could tell you what I saw.
I hope you will not keep us all in suspense. RV and seems to be firmly
tied together
with ETs/UFOs and often Mars. PJ refused to let the subject pop up to
any
extent on her e-mail list. Perhaps she had a good reason.
Ed Dames gets a lot of flack about his RV data on Mars and
Martians.....so does
Courtney Brown and its only fair to say that I put a lot of salt on the
subject
myself but I enjoy the stories. Actually, its a little closer to home
than the
black holes out there. Also, with our Mars orbiter out there, it
may be
possible to verify some of the claims. I suspect it will be harder to
verify
that there IS NOT any life or artifacts.
I believe Ingo Swann did a "project" on one of the planets and obtained
data years
before our space probes found and verified it. (Don't have the hard copy
handy.)
Angela Thompson also reportedly did several psi sessions on ETs both on
and off earth.
Most recent, to my knowledge is Prudence Calabrese who claims to have
regular visits from
a "grey". I wonder if anyone has targeted that subject.
Rich
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/853)
10:17:08
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
yanna
Your decision to ally against me with those who believe my statements on the
makelist was anything more than my attempt to be helpful and candid is indeed
unfortunate. I obviously cannot continue to work with you in my version of RV
nor can I send you any more learning materials. However, you should know that
all of my materials are covered by US Copywrite laws...fully registered and
recorded..and therefore I must inform you that you may not use the materials I
have sent you for any purpose whatsoever without my expressed written
permission. If you have passed this material to anyone without acknowledging
me as the source, you are in violation. If you use this material or have used
this material in the past for any commericial endeavors you are also in
violation and must pay immediate restitution. I have not yet given you my
permnission to use either my true name or my pen name "Gene Kincaid" for any
purposes whatsoever and demand you cease to do so immediately in any
references to Remote Viewing. You may call me anything you wish on a personal
level. I have asked a colleague to post this on the Makelist for all to read
and to note that these restrictions also apply to anyone who has used my
material and wishes to continue to use it for any reasons whatsoever. This
includes any future references to my previous comments or teaching materials
on the Makelist site without my expressed written permission. Sorry Yaana. I
may not have a financial interest to protect nor even a reputation...but I
do have a great deal of honor and expect at least as much from those with whom
I deal. You have failed to display my requisite levels of honor.
Gene "Kincaid"
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Question of Trust
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/854)
10:17:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Just noticed that this message came back rejected by the mailer daemon
because, it says, the address stargate@... doesn't exist. Ah!!!
Computers!!!
Thought I'd send it again.
At 10:50 PM 8/1/98 +0100, MaryD wrote:
>Lyn et al,
>
>Thank you Lyn, for such a comprehensive reply to my CRV v.ERV q. May I take
>another component of it, and expand the discussion a little.
>
>Lyn said about Gene....>He's one of only three people I would
>>now trust to monitor me in an ERV session.)
(snip)
>Why are Gene, Liam, Skip to be trusted (in an rv sense of course. )
Skip is totally dedicated to the purest monitoring possible and to the
mission, to the exclusion of any personal bent, desires, fears, etc. (The
term STRAY CAT means "Subliminal Transfer of Recollections, Anxieties and
Yearnings to Consciously Accessible Thought". That is, when a person goes
into a session, they carry with them their memories, fears, and desires.
When some perception comes through, they tend attach one of these to the
perception, in order to make some sense of it. In so doing, they develop a
STRAY CAT (AOL). Monitors have the double duty of not only noticing the
AOLs of the viewer and helping them avoid the resulting traps, but also
having to deal with "monitor's AOL" or "monitor's CATs". It is Skip's
total dedication to the mission that causes him to seek only the purest
information possible. He has an uncanny talent for controlling not only
his viewer's AOLs, but also his own.
Liam is one of those people who, to put it in the terms of the sergeant
who "welcomed" us into Basic training all those many centuries ago, "If you
ain't someone I can trust with my life, my wife, and my wallet, I don't
want ya here!!!" Liam is one of those people. When I lay down on the ERV
cot or the dental chair, and Liam was in the room as a monitor, I knew I
could trust him with my innermost self. I never worried about the session,
and just turned it all over to him. It was the same way in the CRV room.
I knew that he was both professional and caring, and wouldn't do anything
to hurt either me or the session I was doing, or the information I was
trying to get. You'd have to know him to see what I mean.
Gene, as you have read over the past weeks, may have come to us as a
take-charge kind of interrogator, but he is the kind of person who wants
nothing more than to do a job right. Right after that initial session I
had with him, I asked Skip to not assign me to any more sessions with him
as monitor, but in time, I came to see, both in the database and from the
talk among the other viewers, that his drive to do things correctly
overcame his old interrogator habits, and in the end, he became one of the
monitors I would always trust. This carried over into the CRV session, as
well. Gene mentioned that another person was in charge of monitoring for
CRV. It was mainly because of my distrust for that other person's (very
horrible and unprofessional) monitoring skills that I started asking for
Gene's assistance in the CRV session. Someone off the street would have
looked good beside that other guy, but in the CRV sessions, just as in the
ERV sessions, Gene's drive to do things correctly and professionally was
the key factor which made him someone whose skills I would rank up there
with the other two in terms of total trust.
>Why is the issue of trust so important?
As both Gene and Liam have said, when you go into a session, you can come
out in a somewhat less-than-alert state, and may need someone who will help
keep you from walking into walls. But even far above that, there is the
in-session trust. That is what I am talking about when I say that I trust
them. The viewer is there to find the truth (hopefully). If you can't
trust your monitor to come into the session without his/her own
preconceived notions and beliefs and be totally willing to have those
personal life-long belief systems shattered by something the viewer finds,
then that monitor is not there totally dedicated to finding the truth.
You're best to work without that monitor. For example, if someone monitors
for you and is the type of person who makes everything into an ET target, a
government conspiracy, a spiritual entity, an altered or parallel
dimension, or whatever other axe they have to grind, and can't set it aside
for the session, then they will interpret everything you say in the light
of their own biases. Their questioning, interpretation, even what things
they copy down as you say them will be filtered through their
"recollections, anxieties, and yearnings". You, as a viewer shouldn't have
to deal with that. If you can't trust your monitor, don't use them.
>With what do you entrust them?
First, you entrust your self to them, since you will be in a semi-altered
state and pretty defenseless. Most people wouldn't have someone monitor
for them, though, if they didn't already at least trust the person's basic
integrity along these lines. More important, you are entrusting your
perceptions to them. Like I say in the above paragraph, if they aren't
willing to set aside all their preconceived notions, biases, and have their
entire life's moorings shattered by what can be found in any session, then
they aren't there for the truth. What you get should be what they report,
even if it threatens their entire beings. Anything more or less means you
can't completely trust them.
>Why would you not trust others?
As ERV monitors, simply because of the lack of training. If I were to see
that someone new were a good monitor, then I would use them. Wanting to
monitor and being a good monitor are two different things, though. Wanting
to be your best and being your best are separated by a wide chasm known as
"training and experience".
As CRV monitors, I do trust a lot of other people. In my Viewer training
courses, I train each viewer to be a monitor, as well. I throw in the
Monitor training course at no extra charge, simply because of the extreme
importance of a good monitor to any session.
>Is it an issue in CRV too?
To a less extent, since the viewer is not in as altered a state, but it is
most assuredly a factor in CRV.
>Who would care to expand on the issue of monitor trust.
For this one, you'll probably get a lot of stories about times when the
monitor has been the one thing which saved the session, and on the other
hand, a lot of stories about nightmare sessions, totally ruined by albeit
well-meaning monitors.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/855)
10:18:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
> .... my my yanna sounding very grown up and mature tonight :-) Condescending
> :-)
> umm goodness last I heard you were really trying to become one of Genes
> students.. :-)
> oh well as you say aloha... :-) ~T~
If being one of Gene's students means I have to stop thinking for myself or
caring about people who I consider valuable, then I guess he will drop me, that
will be his decision not yours.
Your message is a perfect example of condescending.
My post was about the recognition of too valuable people struggling over style
and acceptance of their responsibilities, but each person will make of it what
they will.
I believe Gene's passion comes from his life's' experience and need to share it,
and Steve's from stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility for his
creation, that does not make either wrong or bad as human beings, it just
highlighted a conflict in chosen style.
It seems that everyone either hates or loves Gene, even after having been his
target I fall in the later category, because I respect his work and know he has
earned his stripes in life, but I would not personally choose his communication
style, I have enough trouble with my own :)
No one said we had to become Genebots to honor the man or his work
I'm just another kid on the playground, hoping everyone will play nice ; )
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/856)
10:18:47
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
> I deal. You have failed to display my requisite levels of honor.
> Gene "Kincaid"
Last time I looked the definition of honor was high regard or great respect
given
recieved or enjoyed, and a keen sense of right and wrong. If by my posts you
deem
true, my lack of honor, then that is your choice.
If action is a demonstration of principal, honor is as honor does, your
definition
seems to be a bit different, or selective at best.
In your picture Gene, you appear a big teddy bear, it also appears the bear has
a
thorn in it's paw. Hope you feel better soon.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/857)
10:19:04
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Lyn wrote:
>First, you entrust your self to them, since you >will be in a
semi-altered state and pretty >defenseless.
Which reminded me of a question that has long been niggling at the back
of my subconscious.. While I have seen interminable debate over whether
or not
a Delta state is requisite (or even helpful) for RV, I gather from all
the reading I've managed to do in RV over my fairly recent introduction
to, and interest in it, that some sort of altered state IS indeed
requisite.. I've even seen some commenting that it could be done in a
regular old beta, but I have some deal of difficulty accepting this
idea, since RV would be way more natural, and much easier for all of us
to access withought massive tecniques to engage it (Yah, I know it
happens to some spontaneously)..
Anyhow, the question is, what does this state "feel" like to viewers who
are roficient, and can anyone offer pointers on methods to achieve the
nessecary state.. Also, is anyone aware of any viewers who have
undergone EEG testing (or MRI, or any other type of modern brain testing
during RV..
Thanks to all,
-Tao_Sk8r
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/858)
10:19:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< I'm just another kid on the playground, hoping everyone will play nice ; )
Aloha Yaana >>
...... Yes, yanna I agree, I sense you like to play kickball.
I favor soccer myself.
have a nice day :-)
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/859)
10:19:38
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
You know what Aqua... my mom always used to say, every time you point your
finger
at someone, there are three pointing back at you.
I have not accused or denigrated people here, just stated my opinions for which
I
am willing to be responsible, are you?
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/860)
10:20:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< >First, you entrust your self to them, since you >will be in a
semi-altered state and pretty >defenseless.
Which reminded me of a question that has long been niggling at the back
of my subconscious.. While I have seen interminable debate over whether
or not
a Delta state is requisite (or even helpful) for RV, I gather from all
the reading I've managed to do in RV over my fairly recent introduction
to, and interest in it, that some sort of altered state IS indeed
requisite.. I've even seen some commenting that it could be done in a
regular old beta, but I have some deal of difficulty accepting this
idea, since RV would be way more natural, and much easier for all of us
to access withought massive tecniques to engage it (Yah, I know it
happens to some spontaneously)..
Anyhow, the question is, what does this state "feel" like to viewers who
are roficient, and can anyone offer pointers on methods to achieve the
nessecary state.. Also, is anyone aware of any viewers who have
undergone EEG testing (or MRI, or any other type of modern brain testing
during RV..
>>
EEGs primarily determine normal or abnormal electrical activity and MRIs only
visualize soft tissue without much in the way of determining hot spots or
areas of activity.
I agree it does happen quite spontaneously for some of us. I am not an RVer.
However, I am somewhat precognitive and have made a number of interesting
predictions over the past 30 years or so. I am interested in learning more
about RV to enhance my precognitive ability.
I would be interested in hearing of PET scans of brain activity during RV
sessions which should ideally be linked to EEGs. PET highlights specific
areas of the brain which are active quite graphically. I suspect that when
folks go into 'psi mode' there is a reduction of prefrontal activity and
temporal activity becomes more enhanced. This would cooincide with the
postings re: theta activity. While we don't know a whole lot about
neurophysiology, the effect of shutting down certain areas of the brain leads
to spontaneous activation of other areas which may be linked to intuition and
precognition.
In terms of pathology, effects of this type may also be occuring in some badly
misunderstood forms of mental illness. I am by no means an expert in any of
these areas. I'm just a psychiatric RN with an interest in psi, precognition
and RV.
If anyone has heard of such research, though I find it unlikely, I would
appreciate hearing from you.
Regards,
Ken
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/861)
10:21:07
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Enough already,
"Gene", "AquaSerene", and Yaana
Please take this whole thread to Personal E-Mail. If you folks want
to insult and back hand each other - I have no desire to get in the
middle. BUT -- You are busy doing it here in public and slapping
all of us in the face in the process.
Dirk
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/862)
10:21:22
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>EEGs primarily determine normal or abnormal >electrical activity and
MRIs only
>visualize soft tissue without much in the way of >determining hot spots
or areas of activity.
Ah, I'm glad my open display of ignorance about this matter produced
such an enlightening response, and I am also grateful for the speed of
it (no, I'm NOT being sarcastic (you know how online stuff can easily
lead to such misenterpretation..)) The only reason mentioned the EEG
was that I was under the impression that it could record primay and
secondary sleep-state information (Delta, etc.), and also cause I
couldn't think of the name of the PET test..
>I agree it does happen quite spontaneously for >some of us. I am not
an RVer. However, I am >somewhat precognitive and have made a number of
>interesting predictions over the past 30 years or >so.
Hmm.. I have somehow managed to meet a disroportionate number of precogs
in my life, of which my brother was one.. Most have precog dreams..
(Damn this WebTV keyboard) Um, doyou have a website at which you record
your predictions?
>I suspect that when folks go into 'psi mode' >there is a reduction of
prefrontal activity and
>temporal activity becomes more enhanced. This >would cooincide with
the postings re: theta >activity. While we don't know a whole lot
about
>neurophysiology, the effect of shutting down >certain areas of the
brain leads to spontaneous >activation of other areas which may be
linked to >intuition and precognition.
Hmm.. Interesting stuff.. I have not been able to run into harldy
anything in my few years about the workings of the brain, but I've heard
many suggest that the key is basically shutting off the left brain, and
I think I even saw a sightings where the tested a renown psychic lady
who state this about the brain, and testing revelaled this to be the
case when she was in psi mode..
>In terms of pathology, effects of this type may >also be occuring in
some badly misunderstood >forms of mental illness.
Yah, I have long thought that there must be some compensatory upside to
mental illness, st least from the darwinian perspective.. Which reminds
me of an interesting story about a guy diagosed zas paranoid schizo who
told my da one ay that "he shouldn't stick his tongue out at somebody
bigger than him,' and after some contemplation it dawned on me that
considering my dad's personality, he may very well have been doing so
mentally.. Then again, it could have merely been the paranoid aspect of
that man's illness.. Who's to say?
-Tao_Sk8r
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/863)
10:21:52
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Glenn wrote:
> The free exchange of
> ideas, concepts, HISTORY [caps by electrix] and friendship will evolve the
> history we all share.
>
A most fascinating discourse of "history." Interestingly enough, people seem to
always maintain a "version" of the past. It would almost seem to me that the
past is just as dubious as the future in that people's "viewpoints" tend to
filter the "reality" of things.
Glenn occasionally has illuminating things to say which I can't possibly argue
with. Indeed there is a field of free exchange in sharing past events since no
one person can really account for the gestalt past. We all share a past that
needs to expressed and collected as a whole to get a clearer picture. It takes
an insightful person to realize that past event can differ from person to person
and to staunchly hold on to that "personal" past belief can be the downfall of
accurate knowledge base.
I am nor proclaiming that we should be "open" minded, since that in itself is
what creates MORE problems. I suggest being "active minded" --- meaning
analyzing
information that enters our sphere of knowledge and discard what is contrary to
what is harmonic. Yet, to still maintain an attitude of flexibility to discard
the belief held if it doesn't work or compute any longer. A most difficult
thing
for human to do since we seek information to anchor our belief and belief system
to operate in this world.
Sometimes it is important to re-evaluate the information we get. I suggest that
we recognize when an information, especially past information, is worth molding
over...and if the information is of any significance in knowing since we look to
see if it can be of USE in the present as well as future speculation. Any
information that is of no USE is not worth getting emotionally trampled by.
This brings me to a RV question...how can we determine the truism of the past
when all of our history has been written from the "viewpoints" of historians?
Is
it healthy to discount our RV information when it doesn't necessarily match with
past "historic" events as written or accounted for by its author?
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Question of Trust
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/864)
10:22:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Re: [stargate] The Question of Trust
Really cool Lyn...with your expressed thought I can only say that just by your
candid comment, I can trust your intentions. I can think of a couple,
presently,
that I can entrust my mental states in doing RV.
I really get turned off by ego display. It is one thing to know one's
subject...but it is quite another to go about "advertising" one's own prowess
and
hammering it in as Commandments. (And so that my statement does not get
interpreted
"negatively" by previous RV commentators, I am must add that this is my sole
opinion. It is NOT a dig on other professional viewers that I have had the
chance
to meet or communicate). I believe many of us have lost the value of being
humble
in a culture and society that demands that we display our credentials. I would
feel much more comfortable with the attitude of a buddhist priest anytime.
Trust also evokes an interesting aspect in regard to RVing in the process. I
have
found that when engaged in learning RV, we get emphatic ways of doing or
thinking
*something* according to the instructor's view. Almost as if it was a command.
I
believe that to be under a sensitive altered state, this can be detrimental to
the
mental health of a person. Not that they would crazy or something, but rather
embed wittingly or unwittingly "hypnotic" belief suggestions upon the viewer. I
find this element similar to a psychoanalyst engage in the process of allowing
the
patient to uncover the truth for himself.
There should be definitely cardinal rules that we should follow in regards
maintaining trust in the way of, let's say, a doctor to his patient. I think
it
is also necessary for the viewer not to "feel" invalidated in viewing since,
sometimes, the result of the process may not be so obviously objective --- but
subjective enough to warrant the potential that the viewer is right regardless
of
whether it compliments "reality". I know this is tough since, I myself don't
have
an answer on how to handle this. I know, however, that in esoteric targets such
as
where ET's are involved, it does not meet my reality base and these events
shouldn't have to be imposed on me as a "fact." I have no doubt that in the
entire
universe there are other forms of life. But I believe that the introduction of
ET
encounters and RV impressionistic "stories" to the un-initiated are polluting
the
reality of those of us who have not encounter with such a situation. I know
that I
have personal experience that should remain private and that the decision is
based
on whether it is helpful to a society or whether I am asked to elucidate towards
purposefulness.
It is for the above reasons that I would be interested in knowing if the RV
community would want to create a non-profit Association or Organization that
would
keep the balance between what is proper behavior and establishing validation to
those Remote Viewers that subscribe to "positive" Organizational tenets in using
the technique as well to advance it in any practical or pro-active way. I am
not
sure if there is such a group...but is one I would be interested in voluntarily
supporting.
electrix
Lyn Buchanan wrote:
> Just noticed that this message came back rejected by the mailer daemon
> because, it says, the address stargate@... doesn't exist. Ah!!!
> Computers!!!
>
> Thought I'd send it again.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Question of Trust
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/865)
10:22:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Re: [stargate] The Question of Trust
Thanks for the great post Lynn, as usual your words are down to earth and
informative.
Aloha Yaana
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
The Question of Trust
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/866)
10:22:58
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Re: [stargate] The Question of Trust
At 22:26 08/08/98 -0600, you wrote:
Thank you Lyn, very much for taking so much of your valuable time in
answering this question of trust so comprehensively. It is much
appreciated. I tend to keep your emails and read them over and over again,
as the weeks and months go by. Each time, I "see" a little bit more.
I recall your response to my first target, when you pointed out all my AOLs
etc. I learned so much from that, took me a while though. You were so
gentle with me, but I still spent time licking my wounds. I notice RV in
general seems a minefield for fragile egos.
I too have found Liam professional and caring. I eventually built up the
courage and sent him my results on his outbounders and he was incredibly
supportive.
Now, as to "Gene's drive to do things correctly and professionally" reminds
me of when I was 19 and we were learning the pub trade, in Exeter, Devon,
UK. There were two training pubs. One was run by an OK lady, the other by a
complete bastard of a man, I can still remember his name, John Chown.
In 2 days he reduced me to tears more than once and he terrified me. Yet I
learned more from him in that 2 days, than from the woman in 2 months. I
always regret I didn't get the opportunity to have that 2 months with him.
When we were told we were going to the woman for training, my heart
dropped. I just _knew_ he was a far better teacher and could have taught me
so much more. Because he was exactly like Gene, "the kind of person who
wants nothing more than to do a job right."
My driving instructor was the same. Yet I passed first time. Gotta say
something...
Thank you, Lyn, Liam, Gene, for being you,
and loving RV the way you do,
and thank you for making rv for me
worthwhile.
Love, MaryD
stargate : Message: [stargate]
"The Economy, Stupid..."
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/867)
10:24:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
As I sat down to de-lurk for a tad, and wondered what to label this, the
immortal words of Brer Stephanopoulos lumbered to the fore... While we
don't have an economy in a monetary sense here on this list, we do have an
economy of information on remote viewing primarily, and secondarily on the
"program" ("Stargate" being one of its many monikers).
For whatever my tiny little old opinion is worth (I'll be the first to say
"not much"), I think we should keep our "economy" in mind.
I've known Gene for a couple of years or so and have nothing but the
HIGHEST regard and respect for him, and I can say the same for Paul Smith.
I have the same regard and respect for Liam and Lyn, although I don't really
know them.
Although I subscribe to this list, I usually find myself reading selected
traffic (delayed) due to time constraints. Of the traffic I do make
time to read, it usually comprises output from four folks... Yep, Gene,
Paul, Liam and Lyn. I'm sure the reason why it's usually those four above
any others is obvious, but in case not it's because they are THE four
voices of knowledge relative to the others. And THAT is the reason I
subscribe. NOT for socializing, nor for ANY other reason...
I've subscribed to a handful of lists over my years on the Internet, and
I've seen all the personality issues that are flourishing here on all
previous lists. The only ones (lists) that survived for any length of time
seemed to eventually have migrated to a Moderated format. Otherwise, it's
sniping here, sniping there, focus gets lost, people leave, new ones arrive
and the process repeats until someone (list owner) finally pulls the plug.
So, to recap, I put forth the suggestion that, to maintain the viability
and integrity of this discussion list, it move to a Moderated format. If
that were to happen, it may not necessarily put an added burden on the list
owner... just a different one. And one which could, if desired, could be
rotated among more than one person. Just a thought.
Mr. Stephanopoulos's illuminated truth notwithstanding (I do detest
politics and politicians), I remain very humbly yours (and am now
submerging back into the depths),
TB
http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site feedback
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/868)
10:24:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
I would like to post a target Steve:
001 021 052 098
Bevy J
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site feedback/releases
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/869)
10:24:57
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Gene
You can release mine. lol it may help others to not 'bounce' lol who
knows?
Bevy J
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Fwd: Excuse me..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/870)
10:25:14
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Amen, Dirk! Let's get on with it and stop the bickering.
Jerry
At 11:16 PM 8/8/98 +8, you wrote:
>Enough already,
>
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/871)
10:25:27
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
want to explain that 'home of a rose - blossoming'
the mental picture was almost that of a nuclear explosion billowing....that
was the 'blossoming'
:)
Bevy J
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
target site feedback
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/872)
10:25:44
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< I would like to post a target Steve:
001 021 052 098
Bevy J >>
.....Protocols?
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/873)
10:25:56
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Jean Luc
I thought we went over that 'threat' stuff when you were here. The 'threat'
consisted of 'their' having done so much in training viewers, telepaths, etc.,
and the continuing 'fear' of their having developed persons who could do
Remote Influencing. ;)
No worry there.
There was no overt threat. It seemed like a techno-gap, and indeed it was
.
If you have read the book recently mentioned on stargate about the Chinese
'super psychics' you will know that although there IS an overt threat reported
in that book, their RV program is in its infancy - literally - and they are
way off base in not only their lab controls but in their concentration on
children who can open flower buds or read with their ears... :)
If you want to go research why their programs were thought of as a threat,
research the articles on 'Psychic Warfare' from the Washington Post, I
believe. Mostly
columnist Jack Anderson's articles on the subject.
Ostrander and Schroeder's book came out later, I think 68 or 69. Their
interest was sparked by the same articles.
But the materials from which I began my own training are of the 1961/2 era.
The USSR was at that time ready and willing to share what they were doing to
train ordinary college students to learn this skill and related skills.
(thank goodness) There was no threat implied. And it was from that same era
that I was able to draw more information and protocols to learn RV for myself.
In 64 the Iron Curtain came down on further developments over there and it was
hard for me or any other researcher to get any access, but not impossible.
Fortunately.
Threats usually emanate from Politicos, not scientists.
Bevy J
U.S. Psi Squad
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
"The Economy, Stupid..."
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/874)
10:26:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
On Sun, 9 Aug 1998 08:49:32 -0400, Thomas Burgin wrote:
>The only ones (lists) that survived for any length of time
>seemed to eventually have migrated to a Moderated format. Otherwise, it's
>sniping here, sniping there, focus gets lost, people leave, new ones
>arrive and the process repeats until someone (list owner) finally pulls
>the plug.
Tom...I must totally disagree with your statement regarding the survival of
lists. I host several lists..the eldest of which will turn 3 years old this
fall. I do not moderate (in the sense of pre-reading and editing posts) any
of them. I do have a very clear set of standards that each member receives
upon joining. There are no flame wars and other than the occasional growing
pain they remain pretty constant. Why? Because for the most part they are a
family. Like any family, however, sometimes someone does something that
irritates another member...like taking their pet peeve out and stroking it
at the dinner table.
Now, while I'm sure not everyone likes peeve fur floating around their
food, it's my job, as the virtual mamma, to find out why the peeve was
brought to the dinner table. Was the peeve in Cousin Sam's pocket and he
forgot about him, bringing him out just for a wee bit to stoke for a few
minutes and then put away? Or did Cousin Sam deliberately bring the peeve
to the table knowing that Cousin Alice was allergic to peeve fur? To find
out..I would take Cousin Sam aside and ask, remind him that peeve's should
really be left outside to play with egos, especially during dinner and
other family gatherings.
On the other hand, sometimes it's not really Cousin Sam's fault as Cousin
Eddie's wife, being new to the family, saw the peeve in Sam's pocket and
dangled a tastey tidbit in front of it causing the peeve to leap from Sam's
pocket, run across Cousin Alice's lap, setting off a series of sneezes and
alot of rustling and clinking of dinnerware. In this case, I would have to
remind Eddie's wife that tidbits should be offered to peeves and egos
outside and only after dinner. It causes all sorts of behavior problems if
you start feeding them at the table. Cousin Eddie would be brought into the
conversation as I would want to know if he had informed his wife of the
family rules regarding demeanor expected at the table. Cousin Alice would
also be reminded to take her medication as she knows there are peeves
present and they set off adverse reactions for her.
That being handled in the privacy of the kitchen, the other family members
are not present at the actual discussion. During these discussions
sometimes you find out things that weren't really obvious before...like the
big eggplant with olives for eyes and celery stalks for legs, while
intended to make the table festive, actually scared the piddle out of some
of the kids. What do you do in that case? Well you bring the children over
and show them it's nothing but a big ol'eggplant and there's nothing to be
afraid of. If they're still afraid of the eggplant, then perhaps they
aren't quite ready to sit at the grown up table and should remain at the
kids table for a bit longer....until at least they aren't intimidated by an
eggplant.
In regard to people leaving and new ones arriving..that in and of itself is
the nature of lists. People join a list and it either isn't a good fit or
it is. Sometimes they find what they are looking for and when that no
longer serves them they move on, others stay because it becomes more than a
list to them, it has become a family. It has been my experience that
occasionally you will get a group of people that mesh and they remain
together, I have been fortunate enough to have shared lists with some folks
for five years. When that happens..it's wonderful. We don't always agree,
but like a family, we respect what the other has brought to the table
>>So, to recap, I put forth the suggestion that, to maintain the viability
>and integrity of this discussion list, it move to a Moderated format. If
>that were to happen, it may not necessarily put an added burden on the
>list owner... just a different one. And one which could, if desired, could
>be rotated among more than one person. Just a thought.
Again, I beg to differ, Tom. Prereading every post is extremely time
consuming. Add to that editing and routing it back for corrections and
you've just created a list that's no fun for the person starting it. That's
why lists get the plug pulled. When you start a list, it is generally
because you wish to enjoy it...when it ceases to be enjoyable then what's
the point of continuing with it?
For security reasons and continuity (unless a formal clearly written set of
rules or standards are in place and disciplinary measures outlined clearly
as well) allowing passwords and administrative functions to be dispersed
between people is not a good idea.
Just my two cents.....I'll be out in the yard....my peeve needs attention.
Siochain,
Vikki
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Another new RV list.... ;-)
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/875)
10:27:21
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
From: curran2106@... (List Manager)
To: aquaserene@...
This is the FindMail e-mail list service.
You have been added to the psi-rv-ogre@... list
by the manager of the list: curran2106@...
Mail lists ae a group of people connected via e-mail,
usually to discuss or exchange information on a certain
topic.
Here is a welcome message provided by curran2106@...
------------------
A lightly moderated discussion group on issues surrounding Remote Viewing and
Paranormal experiences and concepts. The list moderator will allow free
exchanges of ideas in only lightly moderated form. Vulgarity will not be
condoned. Exchanges of differing ideas will be encouraged and any material
used to verify or support these positions will be greatfully accepted. Users
will not be constricted except to by the moderator who may occasionally step
in and ask them to take a reather before coming out for the next round.
Discussions of topics not related to Remote Viewing or Paranormal experiences
will be curtailed unless relevence can be assured.
The moderator will be known only as Ghengis Gene.
------------------
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stargate : Message: [stargate]
Fwd: Important data
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/876)
10:27:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
From: Curran2106@...
Steve:
There are a few things you need to know and understand. First and foremost
are the the type of membership you have on your list. Two of the members are
US Government officials like myself and I have a professional association with
these two individuals in my professional duties. Three others are potential
students of mine and two are current students and two are former students who
now act as my advisory staff on matters related to RV. I made comments
concerning your management of the list none of which were maliciously directed
at you. You chose to respond by maligning my integrity, discretion, morals
and character. I have the same security clearance as the President of the
United States and as such, I must maintain a life style which permits me to
undergo frequent detailed examinations of my background. As noted, two of the
members of your site are professional colleaques who are often approached
during these investigations and asked questions about my loyalty, integrity,
morals and character. Now you have publicly maligned and impugned me on these
issues. The maintenance of my security clearance is a requirement of my
profession, therefore you public impeachment of my character may have well
damaged my future within the government. I spent two hours with my attorney
this morning at Sunday rates. This two hours cost me just under $400.00. His
recommendations and the direction he is taking this matter is as follows:
1. Your comments on my character were improper, malicious and slanderous in
that co-workers in my organization were given free access to this data. My
ability to work with these individuals has now been placed in jeopardy.
2. You then compounded the issue by continuing to impugn and malign my
character after suspending me from the net, thus eliminating any ability of
myself to view your comments or to comment on their validity. This personal
assault at that time took on other legal ramifications in that it was done in
seclusions from the injured party, myself and therefore under US law, any
findings for compensation would be trebled.
3. You maintain data on me which is professional in nature in that my
comments reflect my abilities and experiences in the art of RV. This data
cannot be used by you in and further discussions without my expressed
permission and should be eliminated from you archives as soon as possible.
4. Your summary elimination of my access to your site is your right. Your
continued decryment of my methods, comments and character were inappropriate
at that time and therefore my attorney STRONGELY suggests you immediately
reinstate me to prevent the impression that further maligning and impeachments
are being discussed "in camera" (behind closed doors) so that the injured
party cannot witness nor comment on the impeachment and malignment.
My attorney has notified me that the age of sufferage in Great Britain is 18
years old and that a unique relationship exists between the US and Great
Britain in relationship to copywrite and slander. Perpetrators are not secure
in either country from the suits levied by citizens of the other. He is
drawing up the papers for this suit at this time and will proceed if his
determination is that sufficient evidence exist to carry the suit forward. He
reiterated his strong recommendation that you grant access to the postings of
your net to me immediately although in deferrence to your rights...you can
refuse my postings unless they are to comment on any further maligning of my
character. I have also been advised to send this note to at least one other
member of the website to preclude any reply that indicates the message did not
get through. Please advise when you have reinstated me.
Regards...Gene..
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Fwd: Legal notice
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/877)
10:28:02
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
My response to Gene's email.
--
Gene,
Your e-mail has been received and understood. However, to the
best of my knowledge, e-mail is not a legally recognised method for
giving legal notice. If you wish your lawyer to contact me, please
have him write to the following address:
Steve Crietzman
49 St Gilberts Road
Bourne, Lincs.
PE10 9XD
United Kingdom
If you really feel it necessary for this issue to be brought through
the courts, at no doubt huge expense to both myself and you,
then that is of course your right. I would however, ask you
to consider a less expensive option before resorting to such
drastic measures.
I would prefer, of course, the chance to speak to you by telephone, or to
discuss this issue on a more personal level, so we can attempt to reach an
understanding between us that will hopefully resolve all this issues, without
the need for expensive legal ligitation, which has no guarentee of success and
will only cause further frustration for everyone, as well as upsetting myself,
my family, my friends, colleagues, and others. I suspect it would be an
extremely expensive, traumatic experience for myself and my family, and I would
hope that you are not so intent on this drastic coruse of action that you will
not consider, or at least attempt, a less drastic method of resolving our
disagreements and differences. If you would like to accept my offer of a polite
phonecall to discuss these issues, and hopefully reach a mutually-satisfactory
resolution to this problem, please call me on +44 1778 393472. I can
assure
you I only wish to do what I feel is in the best interests of all
concerned, and I seriously believe, at this present time, that my
suspending you from the list was within my rights and was the
proper cause of action. I am not so rigid that I am not prepared
to change my mind if convinced otherwise, however.
Gene, if you would like to accept my offer of a phonecall to resolve
this, that will hopefully save both myself and yourself a lot of unneces
sary
trouble, before resorting to any more drastic measures, please
contact me.
A long, drawn-out, confrontational lawsuit, assuming you filed one,
has no guarentee of success, would be extremely expensive to file,
and there are much cheaper ways to hopefully resolve this problem,
that do not require a lawyer or courtroom. I hope you will consider
giving diplomacy and discussion a try outside of the courtroom before
you consider proceeding any further.
I'm only human, Gene. Please consider that phonecall.
Regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/878)
10:28:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>Anyhow, the question is, what does this state "feel" like to viewers who
>are roficient, and can anyone offer pointers on methods to achieve the
>nessecary state.. Also, is anyone aware of any viewers who have
>undergone EEG testing (or MRI, or any other type of modern brain testing
>during RV..
>
>Thanks to all,
>-Tao_Sk8r
>
Hi All; Liam here
Excellent question, and one that I do not see people beating down the doors
to answer. I will give it a shot.
First I need to let you know where I am coming from. There are two schools
of thought when it comes to RV. One school is the Newton School. This
school is concerned with discovering the scientific reasons behind RV and
believes that scientific solutions improve the quality of remote viewing.
The other school is what I call the Irish School. The Irish School believes
RV is magic. When you discover something that makes the magic work better
you incorporate it into your style, whether it makes since scientifically or
not. I belong to the Irish School, in case you had not guessed.
OK, having set the stage, lets look at CRV first. My Newton friends tell me
there is no altered state involved in CRV. It is done in the Alfa state. I
can buy that, however there is a not to subtle shift, at least IMHO. The
problem is for me now, to try explain that shift. It is a slight numbness
in the brain (not precisely but that's about as good a description as I can
find). For those of you who have boxed, it is a little like walking into a
medium hard punch. You are not really hurt but you are stunned for a
second. There is a slight withdrawal from the physical. There is a slight
shift from the here and now. (If I sound like I am faltering.....I am.) I
find once my students have worked a few sights they become familiar with the
feeling. Not a good answer, but the best I can do for now.
Any CRV monitor is familiar with this shift. You watch a viewers eyes as
he/she is getting ready to go. All of sudden there is a slight click and
then he/she puts the tip of his/her pen on the paper and you give him/her
the coordinates. If you do not believe there is a shift, try talking sense
to a viewer after he/she returns from riding the signal line for an hour or
so.
How do you achieve that shift. Paul Smith plays unbelievably bad music at
incredible decibels. Lyn kept busy with a scheduled time for the session. I
relax for awhile, daydream and then just before beginning the session I say
a little prayer. Do not meditate. It will put me to deep and alter the
Alfa state, at least IMO. So one medium to medium good prayer and away I
go. My wife is part Native-American and follows the Red Road. She started
smudging before working a site. This seemed to improve her accuracy. (The
Irish School does not keep statistics). Many of my students follow the Red
Road and they also begin smudging with the same results. I am not Native
American and I do not really follow their ways, but what the hey. It seemed
to work for everyone else, so I started smudging. Worked for me also, so I
added it to the magic.
Now for ERV. Here there is a change in the state at least according to my
Newton friends. But the signal line feels the same as it does in CRV, only
several times stronger, IMO. Here I meditate to prepare myself to work. I
will not go into detail about the meditation. I also smudge before working
( I do not know why Magic works. I just know it works if I do certain
things.) There is a feeling I have when I am ready to work. There is a
tingling and lightness in my arms. My mouth is dry and my speech is
slurred. My brain is a mess and it is impossible to make logical decisions.
I check from time to time during the site. If that feeling is gone from my
arms I meditate for a few seconds and get it back. The problem is,
particularly working without a monitor, of going too deep. I go away. I do
not where I go or how long I am there. When I come back I do not where I
was. To make it short, there is a window in ERV. If you are to shallow you
come up above the window. If you are too deep you go below the window. You
have to stay in that narrow band between the two. It is not really all that
difficult and you do get better with practice. It is still a whole lot
easier when you work ERV with a monitor.
I know this was pretty disjointed. I hoped it helped.
slainte
May the force be with you
Liam
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/879)
10:29:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
<< The only reason mentioned the EEG
was that I was under the impression that it could record primay and
secondary sleep-state information (Delta, etc.), and also cause I
couldn't think of the name of the PET test..
You are correct. Sorry if I came across badly. EEGs do tell us about sleep
states, and PET scans show us areas of the brain which are active in
relationship to others which are less active at any given time. I am
interested, as you seem to be, in how certain levels of consciousness effect
our ability to accurately gather data unconventionally.
>I agree it does happen quite spontaneously for >some of us. I am not
an RVer. However, I am >somewhat precognitive and have made a number of
>interesting predictions over the past 30 years or >so.
Hmm.. I have somehow managed to meet a disroportionate number of precogs
in my life, of which my brother was one.. Most have precog dreams..
(Damn this WebTV keyboard) Um, doyou have a website at which you record
your predictions? >>
CENTRAL PREMONITIONS
REGISTRY
I'm not sure this site is still active, but you can look into it. Actually, I
don't do dreams generally. I do analysis while awake and conscious by
association most of the time. I've been doing this sort of thing since the
late 60's and was particularly active while in Naval R&D during the 70's.
Most of my experiences have to do with my years in the military.
Regards,
Ken
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/880)
10:29:41
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>Hi All; Liam here
>
>Excellent question, and one that I do not see
>people beating down the doors to answer.
Yes, it does occur to me as somewhat unusual that
my request has stirred up so little in the way of
response.. I thought it was an important one to
ask because I've studied the RV phenomenon in as
in-depth a manner as I've been able to with
various freely available resources, and have never
seen any discussion of the practical matter, the
method if you will, that is used to enter the
needed state.. This is crucial to me, cause I've
grasped what straws I can, and seen various RV
protocols, but little on methods, and this leaves
me at a loss as to how to proceed into becoming a
halfway decent RVer..
>I will give it a shot.
Thank you VERY much, from what little I've gleaned
about you, I know that your opinion on various
matters is held in high regard by much of the RV
community, and I appreciate your description, as
'unscientific' as it may be..
>First I need to let you know where I am coming
>from. There are two schools of thought when it
>comes to RV. One school is the Newton School.
>This school is concerned with discovering the
>scientific reasons behind RV and believes that
>scientific solutions improve the quality of
>remote viewing. The other school is what I call
>the Irish School. The Irish School believes
>RV is magic. When you discover something that
>makes the magic work better you incorporate it
>into your style, whether it makes since
>scientifically or not. I belong to the Irish
>School, in case you had not guessed.
Yes, I've read enough of your postings to place
you firmly in that camp, and, with that I'll add
that I reside firmly in BOTH camps, oddly enough..
I believe that RV IS indeed majick, and that to
some extent scientific study of it, and related
phenomenon can never cause an important enough
paradigm shift in terms of methods, to really
alter the face of RV, as it were.. However I do
believe that a scientific understanding of what
goes on in the brain during RV, and other mind
super powers (to paraphrase Ingo) might lead to
some helpful developments in the area of methods..
I think that explains my take, although it does
sound somewhat contradictory I think careful
literal reading of it will reveal my meaning..
>OK, having set the stage, lets look at CRV first.
>My Newton friends tell me there is no altered
>state involved in CRV. It is done in the Alpha
>state. I can buy that, however there is a not to
>subtle shift, at least IMHO.
Yes, I take your meaning here, and I think I may
have been mistaken about Beta, and my slight
dyslexia transposed Alpha and Beta.. Anyhow, I've
used several 'brain machines' or light & sound
devices and flipped through various states with
them, in hopes of becoming familiar enough with
the states to achieve them without the devices,
and unfortunately never had any spontaneous RVish
phenomena take place.. Anyhow, the point of all
this is that Alpha IS actually an altered state.
as beta is the normal waking one (to disagree with
your friends, not you)..
>The problem is for me now, to try explain that
>shift. It is a slight numbness in the brain (not
>precisely but that's about as good a description
>as I can find). For those of you who have boxed,
>it is a little like walking into a medium hard
>punch. You are not really hurt but you are
>stunned for a second. There is a slight
>withdrawal from the physical. There is a slight
>shift from the here and now. (If I sound like I
>am faltering.....I am.) I find once my students
>have worked a few sights they become familiar
>with the feeling. Not a good answer, but the
>best I can do for now.
That's actually pretty good, and sufices as an
answer to the lesser of my questions.. I really,
in retrospect might have opted to omit it, since
describing altered states of any magnitude is
always almost beyond the realm of words, and
therefore virtually impossible to describe.. I
guess what I really was attempting to ask was
about the practical, hand-on methods for getting
to the requisite state.. Not that you haen't done
a pretty good job of answering this question, but
merely to redirect any future answerers of the
question (of which I hope there will be many, and
I hope to hear from all viewers on the list, no
matter exerience level)..
>How do you achieve that shift. Paul Smith plays
>unbelievably bad music at incredible decibels.
HAHAHAHA LOL!! Man, I can't wait to see his
rebuttal of that one!! You kill me, Liam, weather
or not it's fact..
> [The smudge} Worked for me also, so I
>added it to the magic.
There is a distinction here that I think is important, while in some
areas I side with the scientists, I TOTALLY agree with the principle of
adding things which work experientially, and this concept, IMHO
shouldn't be alien to science..
>I know this was pretty disjointed. I hoped it
>helped.
Yah, disjointed, but I expected as much, understanding the limits which
our languages place upon us when attempting to describe these matters..
Nevertheless, as I've said, I found your descriptions to be MOST
helpful, and thanks again!
Regards,
-Tao_Sk8r
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and altered states Q..
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/881)
10:30:01
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
><< The only reason mentioned the EEG
> was that I was under the impression that it >could record primay and
secondary sleep-state >information (Delta, etc.), and also cause I
>couldn't think of the name of the PET test..
and he wrote:
>You are correct. Sorry if I came across badly. >EEGs do tell us about
sleep states, and PET scans show us areas of the brain which are active
in
>relationship to others which are less active at >any given time.
Ok.. Thanks for the clarification, and sorry if I came off as defensive,
that was not my intent, I merely wished to reveal the fact of my
ignorance of such things, as I thought people should understand this
about my perspective (No, I didn't take your words badly.. I'm one of
these folks who has gone through a lot, and am therefore pretty
thick-skinned. I also try to follow the toltec four agreements which
suggest that things others say are not to be taken personally, as they
are merely expressions of thier personality, and as such have little
relation to the listener..)
> I am interested, as you seem to be, in how >certain levels of
consciousness effect
>our ability to accurately gather data >unconventionally.
Yes, as I have explained in my response to Liam, I believe a greater
understanding of this field has the possibility of improving RV methods
(though without the likelyhood of remarkable improvement)..
>I'm not sure this site is still active, but you >can look into it.
And so I will..
>Actually, I don't do dreams generally. I do >analysis while awake and
conscious by
>association most of the time.
Hmm, that's interesting.. I wonder if most precogs work in this way, or
through dreams.. Like I said, pretty much every one I've spoken with has
gotten thier information through dreams.. I wonder how much research has
been conducted in improving the frequency/reliability of these events,
and if anything helpful was ever determined from it..
-Tao_Sk8r
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/882)
10:30:51
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Re: [stargate] Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
Lyn here.
Please forgive this if it sounds impertinent. It is actually a need to
clear up some confusion and/or ignorance on my part. I was only with the
program for about 9 years, and so there are probably many things I don't
know about everyone who was involved before and after me, but I would like
to fill in any gaps that may exist in my knowledge.
At 12:11 PM 8/8/98 -1100, Glenn Wheaton wrote:
(snip)]
>The move to DIA I felt was the bums rush out the door. I have to say up
>front we didn't like DIA much from my perspective in Group. Gen Odom was
>not exactly our poster boy either :). Now Admiral Inman!! He gave us treats
>and toys, ahh those were the days.
and
At 05:16 PM 8/8/98 EDT, Aquaserene wrote:
(snip)
>....Also...the reason we looked into the Russian RV program was...
Maybe Glenn and Aquaserene could give us all a little background as to who
they are/were and what part they played in the program. I'm not being
accusatory here, but am honestly just wondering, so I can fill out any
parts of the unit's history I may not know about. If that's already been
done, please let us know where in the archives to look to read it.
Like I say, I am not trying to be accusatory here, but I have had people
whom I have never heard of or met before come up to me in crowds and
announce loudly (so others could hear) that they worked with me in the
project at Ft. Meade the same time I was there, and didn't I remember them
there? I have even had two people offer me money to say that they were in
the project with me so they could start charging people for visualization
training. Needless to say, after such incidents, I am sort of sensitive
about hearing of people who were involved in the project, but of whom I
don't know anything. There were many such people, I have just become
cautious.
I know that Steve has probably already found out about Glenn's and
Aquaserene's backgrounds, and would probably vouch for them, but these are
two people I'm not familiar with, and like I say, would just like to fill
in any gaps. Nobody knows the whole story, but I'm trying to pick up new
pieces all the time.
Thanks. No offense - just wondering, as I'm sure others are.
Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations
37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285
Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/883)
10:31:09
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>At 08:30 AM 8/8/98 -0700, Angela wrote:
>>I believe that the person who identified and evaluated the psi
>>information gap between Russia and America was Skip Atwater,...
(snip)
At 08:38 AM 8/8/98 -1100, Wheaton replied:
>Not to take anything from what Mr. Atwater, but the awareness of America of
>the Russian Psi-Research came about in the normal way. (big snip)
That is true, but a part of the early Scanate project (and some work
leading up to it) was conducted not by the intel community at large, but by
appointed selected individuals who would be specifically concerned with the
particular information. The intel community at large was busy doing its
own thing. One of those specifically concerned individuals was Skip. Even
as late as 1992, when I retired from the project, we were still collecting
information on the methods, practices, projects, etc. of other countries
involved in parapsychological warfare/research/you name it/etc. Russia was
just one of them, and not really one of the most important. The tracking
of other efforts was a continual part of our jobs - just to add to an
already busy work schedule.
As I understand it, the earliest reports of Russian efforts came through
normal intel sources, but then Skip and some others took up the project to
investigate the information and to collect more, report, and advise.
Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations
37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285
Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Change in Moderation Mode
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/884)
10:31:25
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi All,
After receiving several comments suggesting I switch this
list to moderated mode, and considering the recent troubles
on the list, among other things, I am afraid I feel it is
necessary to switch this list to Moderated Mode. This
means that posts must be approved by the moderator
before they are allowed to hatch over the list.
I still intend to be as liberal as possible, and allow posts
through unless I see good reason not to. The only
noticeable difference is that I will react to many mails
before they enter the list, as opposed to once they've
already been posted for all to see.
I am sorry to those of you who are opposed to moderated
lists. I can only promise these people that apart from
the fact that posts to the list will appear in packages (as I
logon and approve messages each day and send the
messages off to the list), there shouldn't be much of a
difference to the list itself, although it should be easier
to manage in many ways (and harder in others).
I hope you all can understand my decision. I have been
able to hold off on switching to moderated mode for
quite some time, despite some really tough challenges
in that time, but for greater security, now feel that it is important the list
be switched to moderated mode. In all other respects, however, the list will
basically be the same. I am sorry for any inconveniance this decision
may cause, but the effects should, hopefully, be
negligeable.
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/885)
10:31:43
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
> Anyhow, the point of all
> this is that Alpha IS actually an altered state.
> as beta is the normal waking one (to disagree with
> your friends, not you)..
Just as a point of technicality...during the "waking" state we switch in
and out of states. For example, most of us who drive to work are usually
in an Alpha state. If we are concentrating we are also in Alpha state.
Paradoxically, when we REM (dream) the brain wave emission are the the same
as Beta as we are awake!. In fact, it is hard to tell the difference on
EEG results.
I believe science seek to understand the nature of the phenomena to
classify and categorize the result so as to reproduce the SAME method,
unequivocally, across the board. Thus, the idea that an exact principle can
be derived from its study would signify that others are able to apply the
same principle to get the exact same result. It is a part of the
Scientific Method. Of course, Science has its limitations on the phenomena
of psi in that it is a crude tool for a phenomena that is outside of
scientific realm.
Then there are those who "just like to drive the car and not worry about
what is thumping under the hood," as a colleague of mine recently stated.
Nothing wrong with that...except when we seek to transfer an exact
knowledge to the recipient and it doesn't work as efficiently as it could.
We all, to a certain extent, rely on both...we just tend to lean more on
the one that validates our belief.
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/886)
10:32:05
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Aloha Lyn,
I am distressed somewhat that my comments about the origins of the Intel
knowledge of the soviet bloc Psi-threat failed to give Mr. Atwater his due.
Even after trying to make it clear that I in no way was minimizing his
contributions. As always in Intel some dynamic person made things happen,
pushed the ball to get it rolling and kept it rolling by tireless effort.
That person I have no doubt was Mr. Atwater. Sorry about the confusion. It
seems I am in an environment where each word or idea must be measured
carefully. I will be more precise if I can.
Aloha Glenn
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : about the RV Russian threat
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/887)
10:32:17
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi Glen, I was going through my files and came across a copy of an
unclassified document that someone sent me, way, way back. It is entitled
Soviet and Czechoslovakian Parapsychology Research dated September, 1975
and prepared by U.S. Army Medical Intelligence and Information Agency and
the Office of the Surgeon General for the DIA. The authors are Louis F.
Maire III and Major J.D. LaMothe, MSC. So, this seems to be the first
authenticated documentation of the U.S. becoming concerned about Soviet
bloc psi research. What was Skip Atwater's role, then, in assessing the
Russian psi threat? (If that isn't classified).
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
The Inner Vision Research Institute
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/888)
10:32:40
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
same principle to get the exact same result. It is a part of the
Scientific Method. Of course, Science has its limitations on the phenomena
of psi in that it is a crude tool for a phenomena that is outside of
scientific realm.
>>
Right, but psi is not outside of the scientific realm. Science just hasn't
defined a unified theory of quantum mechanics and relativity adequately which
takes into consideration the non-material physical reality of consciousness.
The following discussion lists address the subject of scientific approaches to
consciousness:
Physics@... (For info you can go to the Intuition Network website)
Quantum-Mind@...
(To subscribe you can e-mail Listserv@...)
prf@...
( I'll have to dig around in my old e-mail for the subscription address)
I find all of these lists informative and in a number of ways, but my
background is in psychiatry so this approach tends, as Electrix pointed out,
to validate my beliefs.
The issue of consciousness and physics is addressed at both the Physics and
Quantum Mind lists, while the prf is the Parapsychology Research Forum.
Jack Sarfatti has been kind of directing the conversation on the Physics list,
while Stuart Hameroff has been moderating the Quantum-Mind list out of the
University of Arizona's Consciousness Studies area. The PRF is a moderated
forum which is contributed to by professional parapsychological researchers
from a variety of institutions including PEAR, Rhine, Koestler, the University
of Nevada etc...
There are many scientists from a variety of fields seriously studying the
various phenomena of consciousness and the implications for psi but without
some better defined consciousness research it will take a long time to get
there.
I am pretty much a lurker on these lists as I do not possess the credentials
to communicate as effectively as I would like with most of the contributors,
but I am learning a great deal.
Best Regards,
Ken
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Physical Inclemencies
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/889)
10:32:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Ostensibly, a physical inclemency ( backache, headache etc. )tends to have a
deleterious effect on a session. At what point, if any, should a remote viewer
break contact with the signal line and discontinue the session?
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Tart's Appearance
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/890)
10:33:11
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hello, the realaudio archive for Charles Tarts interview on Art Bell is:
is for 08-06-98 "coast to coast.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/891)
10:33:29
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hello:
I've been wondering if anyone out there has tried ERV during a lucid
dream (dream state where one is totally aware he/she is dreaming)?
This seems like a good platform for EVR work, where one could still
perform some basic protocol targeting something, but was still in fact
asleep, anyone know?
Bill
stargate : Message: [stargate]
Uh?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/892)
10:33:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Is it only me or...do I notice a considerable slow down of list
discussion? As everyone vacated the premises?
electrix
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Uh?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/893)
10:33:53
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>Is it only me or...do I notice a considerable slow down of list
>discussion? As everyone vacated the premises?
Hi Electrix,
No, everyone is still here.. there are just a couple of things
happening behind the scenes that caused a slowdown
yesterday. There shouldn't be any more slowdowns.
Sorry for the delays, but relax, everyone is still here
Electrix!
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/894)
10:34:26
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>I've been wondering if anyone out there has tried ERV during a lucid
>dream (dream state where one is totally aware he/she is dreaming)?
>This seems like a good platform for EVR work, where one could still
>perform some basic protocol targeting something, but was still in fact
>asleep, anyone know?
Hi Bill,
I used to have lucid dreams fairly frequently. While this might not be the
answer you are looking for, I felt I'd better chip in my experiences with
regards to lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming is dreaming while being fully aware
you are dreaming. You usually gain at least some degree of control over the
dream while in this state.
Whenever I realise I am dreaming, I always want to get up and fly in
the dream - something about flying just seems so natural and relaxing..
However, I often set aims for myself to carry out when I become aware
I am dreaming. In the dream I don't seem to "remember" the aims I
set myself, and I do not appear to have any access to my
waking/conscious memories, I only know about the "here and now",
i.e. the dream.
If this is common to everyone, I can imagine the problem: people would
become aware of the dream all right, but would forget to carry out the
remote-viewing they've been tasked with. Not unless they have been
giving themselves repeated messages not only to test if you are
dreaming (the way lucid dreaming is programmed), but also to program
themselves to do a remote-viewing when they become conscious.
It seems to take a while of repeated 'drilling in' of these messages before
the sub/unconscious (not sure which is the correct term), gets what you
are trying to tell it. The best analogy is like the earth and the sea,
or let's say - a pool.
If the sun is hot, it may take no time at all for the earth (which
represents
your conscious in this analogy) to heat up. It's easy to memorise
something and drill it in. But the subconscious (the pool) takes ages
before it heats up. It needs to be constantly drilled for a long period
of time with that sun's heat. I.e. you need to be drilling home the
message
"I want to lucid dream/am I dreaming now?" It can take weeks before
this will settle into subconscious, however.
ON THE OTHER HAND, there is a plus side. When the sun stops,
the land/earth will quickly cool off, but the subconscious, again, is
slower to respond, and it will retain heat for longer without being
drilled. It's slow to adapt. So, if you stopped the lucid dream
exercises, my guess is that you'd still have them for a while,
say another week or so, but eventually, they would stop naturally,
and it would again have to start practising, for say a week, before
they'll start again.
This is merely my own experienec with the subconscious mind
and lucid dreaming. I'm not offering this advice as an expert,
but merely my own experiences with lucid dreaming.
It's my opinion that the slow nature of the subconscious/right
brain in a dream would make it very hard to remember to carry
out logical instructions your conscious mind/left brain desires.
I'd like to hear from anyone else who has had lucid dreams experiences
and to know if they have experienced any similar restrictions within
lucid dreaming, and especially about the 'speed' of conscious vs.
subconscious mind 'programming'.
I hope this information is useful.
Best regards,
Steve.
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/895)
10:34:42
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
> I've been wondering if anyone out there has tried ERV during a lucid
> dream (dream state where one is totally aware he/she is dreaming)?
Hi Bill and all (I've been studying online etiquette from Liam):
I can't speak from experience, but I am coaching someone who is quite
adept in attaining lucid dream states. The reason we cultivate LD's is
for a launch platform for OBE's. We have had a great deal of success
in getting her to both states, but maintaining control is TOUGH. It
seems the SC mind is like an inquisitive child, and has a difficult
time caring what the waking mind has determined it should be
interested in.
From this, I would infer that RV protocols would be very difficult to
adhere to. Like Steve says about flying... who cares about work (RV),
when you can fly?
I apologize if this response has gotten horribly off-topic.
Greg
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Physical Inclemencies
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/896)
10:35:18
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Hi,
my experience is that after declaring all my physical impairments before
beginning a RV session I will be ok. The pains won't bother me during the
session, in fact I can hardly feel anything, just what's at the target site,
like whether it's cold, hot or scary there. The physical pain (headache, etc.)
comes back about 30 minutes after session ends.
When I do ERV it seems I block out my physical problems totally. I am not even
aware of my physical presence.
Regards,
Monika
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
RV and Lucid Dreams
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/897)
10:35:37
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
>I've been wondering if anyone out there has tried ERV during a lucid
>dream (dream state where one is totally aware he/she is dreaming)?
>This seems like a good platform for EVR work, where one could still
>perform some basic protocol targeting something, but was still in fact
>asleep, anyone know?
Yes. I hate to be nit-picky here, but the answer to your exact question is
found in the rules and requirements for proper conduct of an ERV session.
Those requirements are: (partial list)
1. You have to have a monitor to follow the protocols. The monitor must
be trained in specifically ERV protocols, and not vary from them. If you
don't know what those protocols are, then what you'r doing isn't ERV.
2. The monitor must first allow the viewer to get into a hypnogogic state
and then provide cueing (usually coordinates, like in CRV) which will bring
the viewer onto target.
3. The monitor must be trained and adept at keeping the viewer in the
hypnogogic state, sometimes for hours on end, without letting him/her
either wake up or go to sleep. This is a REALLY hard task to do, and takes
not only training, but real talent, as well.
4. The monitor must be trained in guiding the viewer to gain perceptions
without imparting information into the session. This is a MUCH harder job
than it sounds.
5. The monitor must be trained in recording information about the viewer,
and at the same time, keep track of where the viewer is at the site, what
the viewer is doing at the site, what the viewer is perceiving at the site,
etc. In addition to recording all that, the monitor must also record time
hacks to track the progress of the session.
6. The monitor must fill out all reports after clearing up any confusion
on his/her part, then review the report with the viewer to be certain there
are no misunderstandings.
7. The monitor must both prepare the viewing room for the session and
clean/clear the room afterwards - janitor duty.
8. The monitor must then do all the final paperwork, briefings, etc.
As you can see, there are three things in all those rules which answer your
question.
First, the viewer has to remain in the hypnogogic state and be guided
through it while answering verbal questions asked by a monitor. People in
the lucid dreaming state can't be asked questions by an outside person, and
even if so, couldn't answer. Lucid dreaming is not done in the hypnogogic
state.
Second, you can't have an ERV session without a monitor. No matter what
people tell you ERV is, the fact is that you just can't do ERV alone. You
have to have a monitor.
Third, the monitor must specifically be trained in and must be working ERV
protocols. If anything else being done, it is not ERV.
There is as widespread a misunderstanding about ERV as there is about CRV.
"ERV" isn't just "viewing while half asleep". It is, in fact, a very
formatted and strictly structured form of viewing in which certain
requirements are met. If those requirements aren't met, then it may be
good stuff, it may be "viewing" of some other kind, it may be productive,
it may get you the answers you need, etc. - but it isn't "ERV".
Now, as to your question about productive "viewing" while in the lucid
dreaming state - that's another thing altogether. Stephen LaBerge says
that it can be done, and done quite effectively. He has how-to books out,
and teaches a course in lucid dreaming, out in California. If you haven't
read his books, I would suggest that you get one. It is very
enlightening...... but it isn't ERV.
The Monroe Institute gets you into a state which many have likened to lucid
dreaming, and have shown that some rather effective "remote viewing" can
take place while in that state. From what Joe tells me, it is very
productive ...... but it isn't "ERV".
Lyn Buchanan, Problems Solutions Innovations
37 Camino Ranchitos, Alamogordo, New Mexico 88310 (505) 437-8285
Check out our web page at http://www.crviewer.com
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : Thanks
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/898)
10:35:54
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Thank you Angela
Thank you Aquaserene
Thank you Bevy
Thank you Electrix
Thank you Glenn
Thank you Liam
Thank you Lyn
Thank you Ron
Thank you Steve
And THX to the eventual forgotten persons from the list...
Thank you so much for your contributions on the "RV Russian threat" topic. It
was a pleasure to read you and to discover so many new pieces of the still in
construction puzzle of the international RVing community :)
Yes, of course you raised new questions (among which : what is exactly RV
counterspying ;-), or which are these countries having a still active RV unit
:), or is there somewhere an interesting RVer international who's who to read
?, or...) but it wouldn't be fair to monopolize longer the talk.
Take care,
Jean-Luc
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Back to Star Gate : Thanks
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/899)
10:36:15
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Jean-Luc wrote
> :), or is there somewhere an interesting RVer international who's who to read
Jean-Luc, you may remember from the Inner Vision Course that I am
working on a Who's Who is Remote Viewing organizational chart and
eventually I will make this into a poster format. Currently, it just has
U.S. names and organizations but would be happy to add international
information. Can you help me here, as you seem so knowledgeable?
Kind regards
Angela
----
stargate : Message: Re: [stargate]
Whats it feel like?
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargate/message/900)
10:36:28
~~--------ArchivedPostFollows_Yahoo-StarGate_group-000801-000900---------
Another interesting theory that has been put forward by Gertude
Schmeidler is that psi is processed in the same way as regular perception
and uses the same neural processing. It is possible that the signal line
is received differently but the processing appears to be the same.
Kind regards
Angela Thompson Smith
Inner Vision Research Institute
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